Choosing a vendor
Do not post unsupported claims regarding people, products, or businesses (Rule 10 of the RoC).
- haremlover
- Doll Visionary
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Choosing a vendor
Grassmann66 to say the least slipped on a banana skin which is thankfully very rare.
The TDF accreditation process is as good as it can be and really only the best vendors and manufacturers succeed in navigating through it.
To some extent however, one can tell a lot about how a business will honour its commitments when it's going down by the quality of communication from the vendor. There was a period when a rescue attempt was being proposed for Candy18 and its reception indicated that the proprietor of the business wasn't as on the ball, intelligent in seeing opportunities as he might have been. On the basis of what I saw then, I wouldn't have done business with him.
Another manufacturer who disappeared was Anatomical Dolls and this was clearly in a period of ill health, Oleg subsequently passing away some 6 months later. It seemed callous of TDF to have terminated his accreditation in those circumstances and he complained at another forum, but his business was showing signs of stress and the TDF accreditation system protected potential customers before disaster happened.
I communicate widely among manufacturers and vendors and have my ear to the ground and there aren't any TDF accredited vendors or manufacturers at the moment of whom I have any doubts whatsoever.
The TDF system provides a mechanism by which vendors and manufacturers alike won't like bad feedback through the forums and this provides a self regulating mechanism for all. In that, at least, potential buyers can have faith.
Vendors and manufacturers not represented here usually have good reason for them not to have been given the vote of confidence of approval.
Whilst no system is perfect, the TDF accreditation process does a remarkably good job. Other forums don't have such measures in place.
Best wishes
Harem
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- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
Nothing personal, and I've read others like it, but it bothers me.
To read this, a new user would come away with the idea that any vendor not approved by
TDF is nothing but a scammer, a rip-off artist .. a con. You even suggest as much when you say
"Vendors and manufacturers not represented here usually have good reason for them not to have
been given the vote of confidence of approval." I even saw a post where a vendor was telling
people that they cannot buy on Ebay or the like without getting ripped off, because there are
only two TDF approved vendors who sell on Ebay. (Since when does TDF's authority extend to Ebay?)
Speaking as someone who sells and repairs fiberglas mannequins and recently started carrying
several lines of TPE and silicone dolls, I find this suggestion inaccurate and frankly, offensive.
I don't sell on TDF. I don't advertise on TDF. That is my decision, having nothing to do with ever
giving anyone a bad deal, ripping anyone off or failing to handle service issues.
And while I'm not TDF approved, (not 'accredited', not 'certified' .. I doubt TDF would EVER do either
of those things) I am still an honest business with (I believe) outstanding customer service. I just
don't happen to sell here. 100% of my work is in person or on the phone, mostly store displays. But
I recently started putting up a website for the soft mannequins because people prefer privacy when
looking at those. Face to face is just a bit intimidating for sales of intimate items.
Posts like this are unfortunate because this forum is a wealth of valuable information, and until recently
I was referring people here to do some research on their own. But if they're going to read about how
I must be a scammer because I'm not an 'approved' vendor, I'd be an idiot to send people here.
So I no longer mention TDF to customers.
And it is unfortunate because it leaves people with fewer options, and a whole lot of misconceptions.
"Certified" has a certain meaning to consumers. How does TDF 'certify' a vendor?
"Accredited" also carries a certain connotation to the readers. How are vendors "accredited" ?
I've also seen 'Verified' used. How does TDF verify a vendor? Check an address? Run a D&B check?
Readers may assume that if their transaction is unsatisfactory, TDF will somehow make it right.
I'm sure this isn't so, nor should it be. But posts like this can make it appear so.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that someone is holding vendors accountable. And praising
good vendors is great. Hell, I even refer customers to vendors here for lines that I don't
carry, because of feedback I've seen here.
Again, this is not personal. And perhaps you're not aware that it can come across this way.
Or maybe you are. But not everyone who failed to pay TDF good money to be 'approved'
is a scammer. And it is starting to look like "If you don't pay us good money to be an approved
vendor, we'll talk bad about you to the whole world"
ok, just had to get it off my chest
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
- Peonyou101
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Re: Choosing a vendor
- haremlover
- Doll Visionary
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Re: Choosing a vendor
Thanks
A reality is that people take chances buying from vendors outside the TDF realm. We read about it on the forum many times per month. There are three other forums I keep an eye on, one from which I'm banned and another where fresh vendors come along and make a splash offering cheap prices and they're often newbies with no knowledge of dolls other than an offer of silly prices from Cathy He upon which they think they can make a quick buck.
The silly-price merchants source dolls from either Chinese dealers getting dolls through the local supply intended for the local market, or fakes. The local market dolls made to lower prices for lower wage consumers locally tend to be the seconds.
TDF accreditation as far as I understand, as I'm not involved other than answering a question "Have you heard of so-and-so", involves satisfying a number of criteria which raises the bar. One of these is sourcing dolls through known channels from the manufacturers directly.
It's in this context that I make the comments in this thread.
Often independent vendors do pop up and, like yourself now, make themselves known to me. There's a lady in Canada if I remember correctly who specialises in supplying dolls to ex-servicemen, and I raised the heads up to good people coming along in particular with Miracle Lee of Dolls-Castle and Don at Mon Amour Toujours.
We normally get to hear about good vendors outside TDF but if you look at the UK forum at the moment you'll find one of these Johnny-Come-Lately make-a-quick-buck merchants coming along with no knowledge or former enthusiasm of dolls trying to make a splash with silly prices which knock the bottom out of the market for reputable vendors providing good service and manufacturers investing in new developments and the best of materials. His website apparently takes payment through SOLO cards, which deceased some years ago and were available only to under-18s.
Some of the outside TDF merchants even provide fake "approval" sites and they're plausible to the inexperienced. The fake dolls can even seem quite OK to the newbie who doesn't know what they should be like. Graham at Lovedoll UK has an example of this at the moment having taken in a fake WM155 that the customer had bought outside the TDF range of vendors.
So for the reasons above, vendors who make enough business to do so and offer business at a level which garners enthusiasm will eventually migrate to jump through the hoops of the TDF accreditation process.
Perhaps on you adverts you might state "I am a doll enthusiast myself as you'll see from my posts at TDF as username Mark Spencer". Of course you can't promote your business on the forum as such, but you can use your reputation as an enthusiast to give your services a leg-up over the scam merchants who remain anonymous and stay in the shadows.
Peonyou101 - thanks so much for your observation and congratulations.
And if any of my posts trouble anyone, please give me a shout so that I can explain. Hopefully I provide a perspective and one that with some explanation if necessary is comprehensible.
Best wishes
Harem
Chloé's book
is available from The-Doll-House
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Here's Coverdoll Yolanda
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-DS-OR-JY-SY-Jarliet-Vivid-SM-SE-ZOne-JM-Sino-Sanhui-Pipedream--XY-WM-Elsa Babe-SM Silicone Siliko-XYcolo-Starpery-Elsa Babe-FutureDoll-Zelex-Irontech-FJ Doll
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- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
And if I didn't say it, I have no problem with TDF checking out vendors, I think it is one extra
level of comfort for buyers. And the hoops are probably just fine for those who choose to go
through that process; after all, they get talked up in the forum and everyone else keeps the
other sellers out. This creates a built in market for those vendors.
My issue is when that protective bubble starts to expand outside the forum, giving people the
idea that anyone not approved by TDF must be a scammer.
ok, I'm over it.
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
- haremlover
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Re: Choosing a vendor
Silly prices. And false registration address.
I alerted Sam at WM and Ray at JY.
Sam replied
In China the site shows as non workingthis is Chinese people make webiste. now cant open and say "We are updating this website, sorry for the inconvenience!Any inquiry, please contact us: +150-1377-2548 or Email to us for help."
this is Chinese mobile number.
but it's certainly hooking people in the UK.I try to check the website. But it closed now. I will keep watching on it.
Knock-offs, fakes or back door seconds.
This is why the presumption that non TDF approved sellers are scammers - and your exception goes to prove the rule.
Best wishes
Harem
Chloé's book
is available from The-Doll-House
- - - -
Here's Coverdoll Yolanda
- - - -
Reviews for:
-DS-OR-JY-SY-Jarliet-Vivid-SM-SE-ZOne-JM-Sino-Sanhui-Pipedream--XY-WM-Elsa Babe-SM Silicone Siliko-XYcolo-Starpery-Elsa Babe-FutureDoll-Zelex-Irontech-FJ Doll
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- Jason Parkins
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Re: Choosing a vendor
- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
haremlover wrote: This is why the presumption that non TDF approved sellers are scammers - and your exception goes to prove the rule.
I'm not sure which 'exception' you're referring to..
But this presumption has no basis in fact.
"A reality is that people take chances buying from vendors outside the TDF realm."
How many people have had bad dealings with vendors who were previously approved?
Again.. I'm not complaining about the approval process. And keeping out bad vendors
is a good thing. I get all that. But this goes far beyond that.. to the point where it
could be considered libel and restraint of trade or even in violation of anti-trust laws.
The most you can say about an unknown vendor is that you don't know them and
would advise caution. That's reasonable. Claiming they must be a scammer is not.
Now, if they're making stupid claims or doing something obviously underhanded, I'm
all for calling that out.
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
- haremlover
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Re: Choosing a vendor
There are at least 15 doll making factories in China and the ones you haven't heard of push out their wares through any channel. And people thinking they can make a fast buck, buying low quality dolls for $450 and selling for $950 advertising 50% off . . . or even more brazenly $1500 take advantage of the copy-culture in south China and gullible buyers thinking they can make a fast buck.
Until sellers meet the criteria for TDF membership one has to be very circumspect as to their chain of supply.
"Ere mate - got a cheap load of meat - how much yer want?"
Were you to be in the butchery trade or a reputable supermarket chain you'd want to know which farm it came through and which slaughterhouse for fear of it being found either to be poached venison, horsemeat, or slaughter of mad cow or TB infected animals. That's why integrity of the foodchain is legislated nowadays.
In the doll world, that's what TDF accredited vendors guarantee.
Going out into the streetmarket and buying off the back of a lorry gives rather less security. That's why in Europe there is prejudice against buying chlorine washed chicken from the USA.
The doll world isn't much different.
Even with non-TDF manufacturers that make good dolls such as Airsha I'm aware that sources of supply such as Cathy He posing as JY will send out dolls of lower quality than those negotiated through TDF vendors who'll pay a higher price and get better quality control.
It's for this reason that TDF accreditation is very much to be respected.
Best wishes
Harem
Chloé's book
is available from The-Doll-House
- - - -
Here's Coverdoll Yolanda
- - - -
Reviews for:
-DS-OR-JY-SY-Jarliet-Vivid-SM-SE-ZOne-JM-Sino-Sanhui-Pipedream--XY-WM-Elsa Babe-SM Silicone Siliko-XYcolo-Starpery-Elsa Babe-FutureDoll-Zelex-Irontech-FJ Doll
- - - -
YouTube Doll Review Channel
-https://www.youtube.com/@sexdoll-reviews-
- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
<snip, all the stuff we already agree on>haremlover wrote:In the normal run of things
Again, agreed.haremlover wrote: Were you to be in the butchery trade or a reputable supermarket chain you'd want to know which farm it came through and which slaughterhouse for fear of it being found either to be poached venison, horsemeat, or slaughter of mad cow or TB infected animals. That's why integrity of the foodchain is legislated nowadays.
"Accredited" ... "guarantee"haremlover wrote: In the doll world, that's what TDF accredited vendors guarantee.
Tread very softly here, Harem .. you are making claims on behalf of TDF that
they don't even make themselves. They know better than to do this.
Words like accredited and guarantee have specific legal meanings. If these claims
go un-challenged, it is possible that a buyer could see this and hold TDF responsible
for anything that goes wrong with a sale from an approved vendor.
Sticking your own neck out is one thing, but you shouldn't stick
someone else's neck out there.
Not familiar with Cathy He, I deal with Olivia, and the JunYing line does fall under theharemlover wrote:
Even with non-TDF manufacturers that make good dolls such as Airsha I'm aware that sources of supply such as Cathy He posing as JY will send out dolls of lower quality than those negotiated through TDF vendors who'll pay a higher price and get better quality control.
Aiersha (AS) umbrella. But are you saying that TDF vendors now have a hand in the
manufacturer's quality control? I don't think any of the manufacturers I represent
have made such an offer to me. It might be nice..
I'll assume 'approved' rather than 'accredited' here, but once again, I haveharemlover wrote:
It's for this reason that TDF accreditation is very much to be respected.
no problem with this .. as I have stated on more than one occasion.
But that's a far cry from telling people that if a vendor doesn't get approval
on TDF, they must be a scammer, and that nobody should ever buy a doll from
anyone but TDF approved vendors, even when buying anywhere else. That crosses
over the line of a recommendation and into the realm of legal quagmires.
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
- Booty Call Dolls
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Re: Choosing a vendor
Please realize I know there are great vendors outside of TDF.
Best,
Jeff
- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
I couldn't really say.. although I suspect it is higher. But I would never tell peopleBooty Call Dolls wrote:Would you agree that some one looking for a doll OUTSIDE of TDF has a higher chance of being "taken"?
Please realize I know there are great vendors outside of TDF.
Best,
Jeff
that someone is a scammer without evidence. That could land me on the receiving
end of a lawsuit. And I would never tell anyone that TDF guarantees anything unless
TDF makes that claim themselves first.
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
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Re: Choosing a vendor
- Mark Spencer
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Re: Choosing a vendor
And there are several vendors here who have been checked out by the
people who run the forum, and they answer questions here too. So you're
in good hands..
I kept locking the keys in the plane. They caught
me on an 80 foot stepladder with a coat hanger."
Steven Wright
- haremlover
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Re: Choosing a vendor
People who haven't heard of TDF have a very high chance indeed of being ripped off. People who have found TDF have a roadmap for navigation.
Among non-approved / accredited whatever vendors, there are some who come out in the open and can demonstrate an interest in dolls by being members here, whilst there are others who stay in the shadows. Fish who lurk at the bottom in muddy waters tend to be predators.
With regard to Aiersha (horrible to have to remember how to spell that) vendors who have a specific relationship with the company can get better quality control than those who go through the standard sellers' channels.
The TPE coming out of JY is significantly good whilst people paying a cheap price can expect unpredictability of joint tensions with some joints very loose and others very tight, and with nuts welded in position cannot be adjusted. JY will in due course be releasing a prime quality with a different and more sophisticated skeleton only to approved TDF vendors. Already their skeleton has a side-to-side joint at the waist, like DS, and with their upgrade their dolls supplied to TDF approved vendors will be extremely good indeed.
Best wishes
Harem
Chloé's book
is available from The-Doll-House
- - - -
Here's Coverdoll Yolanda
- - - -
Reviews for:
-DS-OR-JY-SY-Jarliet-Vivid-SM-SE-ZOne-JM-Sino-Sanhui-Pipedream--XY-WM-Elsa Babe-SM Silicone Siliko-XYcolo-Starpery-Elsa Babe-FutureDoll-Zelex-Irontech-FJ Doll
- - - -
YouTube Doll Review Channel
-https://www.youtube.com/@sexdoll-reviews-