question about splitting on DS dolls

deadpringle · Post by **deadpringle** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:55 pm

GirlsGang wrote:Deadpringle,
since you quoted me, where did I state the doll can stand on its own?

You didn't. I used your statement as a segue into my point, nothing more. I only want to make sure this thread doesn't turn into a DollSweet bashing party.

lovingchanj · Post by **lovingchanj** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:41 pm

Geez, do we really hafta parse every word here? I have seen half a dozen DS dolls in the past month or so. Every single one of them had vaginal tearing. Most were very slight. But why can't we talk about it? I mean, I'm sure DS is working on it. Why does it have to be called vendor bashing when it's true and you can see it with your own eyes?

As far as people bashing vendors when they have never even seen one of their dolls? THAT is vendor bashing and should be discouraged.

I have come to see DS dolls as the best dolls on the market in a majority of ways. There are many other top-shelf dollies out there who, I'm sure are wonderful, but there is only one manufacturer the size of DS. Even my beloved Orient Industry can't keep up with the production coming out of the DS factory.

So, I am not bashing DS when I talk about this tearing problem. It is simply a matter of working the bugs out of the smaller size doll's design as they transition to the new silicone formula.

One interesting note: The doll I sold to my friend Dll_rider - I honestly believe she tore (slight - but still!) in shipping on her way to me! And the reason is because her previous owner did not correctly position her legs before shipping. Like cucky so interestingly shows us, if one leg is twisted and the other isn't - then the stress on the vag is enough for a UPS drop to tear it slightly. I made a nice, little video that shows this. I will try to upload it but it's on my other computer so it might take a while.

DS legs can rotate at the hip. So one must be careful when packing dolly for shipping, to make sure the 360 degree rotating mechanism is in the same place on both legs: the at rest position. That relieves the pressure on the vag.

Haremlover - Yessir! You are probably responsible for people thinking that DS dolls can stand with your wonderful, creative shots of your dolls mowing the lawn etc. But even in those pics the doll was being supported right?. DS dolls can NOT stand by themselves - but damn! They sure can stand when supported!

The new silicone turns to pancake when you stand the doll. Oh well! There are pros and cons to the new silicone mix. Most are pros! By a long shot. But I only stand them for pictures and then quickly return dolly to a less stressful position.

I have an old silicone formula DS that stands (against a wall) 24-hours a day in the shop. I check her every now and then for foot damage but there never is any. Her feet are like a truck tire! That has been lost in the new silicone mix. I'm over it now, but it bugged me at first.

But, as I have come to inspect more DS dolls I have fallen in love with their long list of durable, inventive, beautiful features and functions. So, there's no bashing here. I love the dolls DS makes, but I think honest consumer feedback is a healthy thing. Not something that should be suppressed by mods or anyone else. Let DS learn from the experiences of their customers and users. They have proven that they do listen and improve. So why not help them out?

lovingchanj

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:47 pm

lovingchanj wrote:Haremlover - Yessir! You are probably responsible for people thinking that DS dolls can stand with your wonderful, creative shots of your dolls mowing the lawn etc. But even in those pics the doll was being supported right?. DS dolls can NOT stand by themselves - but damn! They sure can stand when supported!

Like your doll who stands on her feet continuously - very interested to hear that - my dolls standing on their feet are the old silicone, not the new, and they could stand on their feet without support other than leaning on something.

Your thoughts on the smaller dolls tearing in a painful place in shipping are most interesting.

Best wishes

Harem

deadpringle · Post by **deadpringle** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 8:35 pm

lovingchanj wrote:Geez, do we really hafta parse every word here? I have seen half a dozen DS dolls in the past month or so. Every single one of them had vaginal tearing. Most were very slight. But why can't we talk about it? I mean, I'm sure DS is working on it. Why does it have to be called vendor bashing when it's true and you can see it with your own eyes?

lovingchanj wrote:But, as I have come to inspect more DS dolls I have fallen in love with their long list of durable, inventive, beautiful features and functions. So, there's no bashing here. I love the dolls DS makes, but I think honest consumer feedback is a healthy thing. Not something that should be suppressed by mods or anyone else. Let DS learn from the experiences of their customers and users. They have proven that they do listen and improve. So why not help them out?

I'm not accusing you of vendor bashing, however, there are others here who do not own DS dolls who will still use statements like this to do things like vendor bashing and starting arguments. Also, I am not suppressing any information, and I will ask you to tread lightly with your comments there.

If it's true, then please post a picture, so that we can see the tear illustrated with the doll in a recommended position. If this is a design flaw, then DS needs to be made aware of it. If it's not, then these statements need to stop. Speaking of which, have you notified DS of the tearing issues you're seeing? If so, what was their reply?

All I'm asking is that people who are claiming to have issues with tearing please show pictures which illustrate that the tearing is occurring even though they are using the doll in a recommended fashion (ie: a picture showing that the vagina is torn, even when the legs are splayed to the maximum width that DS recommends). This is not an unreasonable request, and it will demonstrate either that the 145cm body has a serious design flaw, or that owners are splaying the legs too far apart.

The reason why I'm picking on this is because the commentary in this thread will influence others as to whether or not they will make a purchase. If they need to have reason to be concerned, lets make sure we have proof of the claims, especially since this thread is in the DS forum section.

I quote from rule 10:
--
"Do not post unsupported claims regarding people or products."
"Any negative statements about products and product safety MUST be backed up by hard evidence."

Post by **jiayi** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 9:17 pm

lovingchanj,
When the doll was shipped, did she have the factory plug in the vag cavity? If not, the folding of the silicone at the top of the opening can weaken that area. My girls are fitted with the plug or the insert at ALL times. I have always moved one leg at a time, with the plug or insert in, and have not noticed any issues after many months of use. If you do not have the plug or insert in, you will see serious distortion of the vag cavity opening while moving one leg at a time. I have two 168's, and have no experience with other sizes, so this advice is for 168 owners.
Jiayi

deadpringle · Post by **deadpringle** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:55 pm

jiayi wrote:lovingchanj,
When the doll was shipped, did she have the factory plug in the vag cavity? If not, the folding of the silicone at the top of the opening can weaken that area. My girls are fitted with the plug or the insert at ALL times. I have always moved one leg at a time, with the plug or insert in, and have not noticed any issues after many months of use. If you do not have the plug or insert in, you will see serious distortion of the vag cavity opening while moving one leg at a time. I have two 168's, and have no experience with other sizes, so this advice is for 168 owners.
Jiayi

This is excellent advice, and it applies to 145cm and 158cm bodies as well. I do this also if I'm going to go more than a few days without using them (which is rare

). I should also note that when storing them, if I don't have the vaginal plug in them, I do so with their legs apart at about 40 degrees, so the vaginal area is not squished closed. Like Jiayi said, keeping the vagina forced closed for extended periods can weaken the top of the vaginal opening.

Also, in this case, as is the case with inserts, powdering the vaginal plug will also go a long way towards protecting the vaginal opening, and the powder will keep the vaginal opening from sticking together. The newer formula is more durable in my experience, however, it is also more tacky once the powder wears off.

Pronicator · Post by **Pronicator** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:58 pm

deadpringle wrote: It helps if you powder the insert. It will slide in easier, and it won't come out until you gently pull it out. Plus, when inserting it, you can use your middle finger, or a thick pen, or something to push it inside, without having to stick all of your fingers in the canal, and stretch it open.

The key here is to be gentle, especially with the smaller DS bodies. I can say, however, the 158cm body is *really* rugged. It was designed for sex, as was the cute little porn star from whom it is cast.

Yes, powder is key. I did have it well powdered when it tore though, and I was using a large pen to do the inserting. You can still VERY easily tear it if you catch the front of the cavity at all while inserting.

I will have to try storing her with the plug in to see if that helps any as well. Started noticing a small 1 mm tear again.

I still think this falls into the category of a design flaw, albeit a minor one. I don't see why the cavity couldn't angle a little more centrally in the body to allow for thicker materials and a more anatomic position. I don't think this should keep anyone from buying a DS if everything else works for you as the repair literally takes a second to do and really isn't visible unless you go looking for it.

deadpringle · Post by **deadpringle** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:17 pm

Pronicator wrote:
deadpringle wrote: It helps if you powder the insert. It will slide in easier, and it won't come out until you gently pull it out. Plus, when inserting it, you can use your middle finger, or a thick pen, or something to push it inside, without having to stick all of your fingers in the canal, and stretch it open.

The key here is to be gentle, especially with the smaller DS bodies. I can say, however, the 158cm body is *really* rugged. It was designed for sex, as was the cute little porn star from whom it is cast.
Yes, powder is key. I did have it well powdered when it tore though, and I was using a large pen to do the inserting. You can still VERY easily tear it if you catch the front of the cavity at all while inserting.

Hi Pronicator,

Yes, I can imagine how this might happen. I used to use my middle finger to install the inserts, and it would take a bit to work them in, however, I've come up with another method.

I found that using a Mexican percussion instrument known as a "Clave" works well for installing inserts, especially on the 145cm dolls. It's very smooth (obviously I don't play it), and it can sheath the insert very well, which in turn makes it much easier to install in the doll. When installing the insert, it's important to go slowly, and work it in gently. Don't be in a rush, because pushing with too much pressure too quickly will tear the vaginal canal.

If anyone is curious why I came upon a Clave, I bought it way back when I used to study HwaRangDo. I made it into a weapon, called a "Dan Bong". It's a short stick the Korean Buddist monks used to use for beating drums, and they would carry them on travels, because they can also be used to shatter the bones of assailants. Claves are *perfect* for making these. Practicioners of Kul Sul also use them:
--

Pronicator wrote:I will have to try storing her with the plug in to see if that helps any as well. Started noticing a small 1 mm tear again.

It will help, especially if you store her for long periods of time.

Pronicator wrote:I still think this falls into the category of a design flaw, albeit a minor one. I don't see why the cavity couldn't angle a little more centrally in the body to allow for thicker materials and a more anatomic position. I don't think this should keep anyone from buying a DS if everything else works for you as the repair literally takes a second to do and really isn't visible unless you go looking for it.

The 145cm body in particular actually used to be 170cm in size. It's a scaled down version of that body style, which, IIRC, was discontinued. I don't think this can be categorized as a design flaw, but I do think that DS should really stress that the smaller bodies require more careful treatment overall. In any case, I'm sorry to hear that you're still having issues with the vagina tearing. Can you give us more details about any other events which directly preceded the tearing? Perhaps we can provide more useful information to help.

Pronicator · Post by **Pronicator** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:06 am

deadpringle wrote:
The 145cm body in particular actually used to be 170cm in size. It's a scaled down version of that body style, which, IIRC, was discontinued. I don't think this can be categorized as a design flaw, but I do think that DS should really stress that the smaller bodies require more careful treatment overall. In any case, I'm sorry to hear that you're still having issues with the vagina tearing. Can you give us more details about any other events which directly preceded the tearing? Perhaps we can provide more useful information to help.

There's not much more to it. I do everything recommended in this thread so far except store her with the plug in. I am careful to position the legs neutrally for storage though, so there should not have been any stress on the vagina during storage.

We are getting into minutia here. DS can stress careful treatment of the smaller dolls or we can call it a design flaw or whatever. What is clear is that the tearing vaginal cavity is probably the weakest point of the current dolls and should be improved. If anyone has any other ideas for me to be even happier with this doll, I'm open to them.

Has anyone tried patching with gauze reinforcement? I don't see how it can be done invisibly and I don't want something that looks like a tampon sticking out of there.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:32 am

Pronicator wrote: Has anyone tried patching with gauze reinforcement? I don't see how it can be done invisibly and I don't want something that looks like a tampon sticking out of there.

The idea is to do something on the inside of the cavity and so that nothing shows on the outside. One way of achieving this is to put everything in place inside and wrap the blank insert in clingfilm and insert it, then closing the legs together. Then do the external mend a day later putting siicone into the external part of the tear, and then closing the legs to put it in the natural position and smooth clingfilm over the top or sellotape.

The old silicone was capable of tearing on the larger dolls and although the legs of the 168 could open to 180 degrees, this would lead to splitting. I did it once and a crack began which I repaired and never had further trouble. Chloé works so hard as a doll that I don't expect her to be perfect. Made in the autumn of 2012 I bought her second hand in early 2014 and she had and internal injury repaired before. This opened up quite widely in the Spring and I repaired using the technique above, successfully. I've put photos of this on a thread somewhere . . . but haven't a clue where at the moment.

One aspect of repairing silicone is to wipe the area with acetone in the areas you want the silicone to adhere.

Best wishes

Harem

DarkOne · Post by **DarkOne** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:17 am

I wonder, Would owners of the DS145 accept more 'cameltoe' to fix the problem? Or just slightly larger (and higher) labia majora?

If not its going to be a lot harder to rework the mold.. (maybe making the insert cavity more D shaped with a flat/thicker spot at the top.. Might require slightly different shaped inserts to prevent a minor bulge at the top but its doable)

nasty_ · Post by **nasty_** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:36 am

Hi!

I was very concerned about the problems with splitting and the new silicone formular of DS.

I used my new 145+ over the last two weeks about 10 times

and I have no problems with splitting - but I have experience in handling silicone dolls.

But the new silicone is so unbelievable soft and you have to be more careful than dolls with a harder formula.... but if I had the choice: I would always go for the new silicone formula.

To avoid splitting when inserting the insert: use a drop of lube and then put the insert in the doll, you don't have to force it and when it is nearly complete in her put one of your finger in the insert and push softly aaaaaaaaand it will fit perfectly aaand it stays in place even with the drop of lube.

lovingchanj · Post by **lovingchanj** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:22 pm

I think Pronicator says it well. If we must play semantics here and not call this a design defect then let's call it "the area of concern" or whatever! Furthermore, I also agree with Pronicator about the fix:

Re-inforce the vaginal cavity inside with gauze. Do it pro-actively at the factory and we won't have to do it at the consumer level. Problem solved. In fact it would not surprise me if DS was gearing up to start doing it as we speak.

Also - DarkOne - I don't think the steps you float in your post will be necessary. Re-designing the vag to fix a little thing like these tears is more than needs to be done. A simple inner re-inforcement should do it without having to engineer any changes to the mold.

Also - nasty - a great idea about the drop of lube. It works wonders!

The notion that you guys who don't experience tears are any gentler with your dolls than we who do experience tears is unfortunate. Nobody treats a doll better than me. But when an unused doll shows up with new tears - it clearly is an "area of concern."

For a few pennies, the gauze step (at the factory) fixes everyone's problem.

Last but not least - let's put it in perspective - DS dolls are masterworks of art and manufacture. Though annoying, these tear issues are a mere hiccup on a doll that is supremely beautiful and well made. My critiques of any and all "areas of concern" are offered as genuine consumer feedback on a product I profoundly love. Not as brand bashing.

lovingchanj

deadpringle · Post by **deadpringle** » Mon Jul 27, 2015 9:26 pm

lovingchanj wrote:I think Pronicator says it well. If we must play semantics here and not call this a design defect then let's call it "the area of concern" or whatever!

Indeed, it is an area of concern, and so I think that description fits well. "Design flaw" is a claim which has yet to be proven, as all we have in this thread is anecdotal "evidence". We need to see pictures of the dolls with apparent tears which are clearly visible while the dolls legs are in a recommended position. Please understand LC, I'm harping on this, because this is a requirement of the rules of the forum.

lovingchanj wrote:Last but not least - let's put it in perspective - DS dolls are masterworks of art and manufacture. Though annoying, these tear issues are a mere hiccup on a doll that is supremely beautiful and well made. My critiques of any and all "areas of concern" are offered as genuine consumer feedback on a product I profoundly love. Not as brand bashing.

Again, I never accused you of vendor bashing. This is the second time I've explained this. My concern is that anecdotal statements about "design flaws" and such will often be used by a small minority of other members here to start mud-slinging campaigns, and I wish to avoid this. Your criticisms are appreciated LC, however, any negative statements regarding the design or manufacture of dolls needs to be accompanied by photographic evidence, or some other form of evidence, such as links to reputable resource. This is a requirement.

I'm not trying to be a thorn in anyone's side here. I simply want to make sure we don't make statements that will cause harm to any vendor's business or reputation without due cause. I would be reacting the exact same way if this were about Teddy Babes, or RealDolls, or WM Dolls, etc.

Pronicator · Post by **Pronicator** » Tue Jul 28, 2015 4:20 am

DarkOne wrote:I wonder, Would owners of the DS145 accept more 'cameltoe' to fix the problem? Or just slightly larger (and higher) labia majora?

If not its going to be a lot harder to rework the mold.. (maybe making the insert cavity more D shaped with a flat/thicker spot at the top.. Might require slightly different shaped inserts to prevent a minor bulge at the top but its doable)

I vote for more cameltoe!!!