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Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 168's

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mi6c
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Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 168's

Post by mi6c »

Greetings.
Since I am comfy with my mannequins but also very interested in a DS 168 normal or plus :!: , I would like to get detailed opinions from those owning them in particular, however experience with other DS being standing on their own for some time is certainly also welcome. :)
I would like to be able to stand a dressed doll for extended periods of time - say month - providing some stability by leaning against something of course, but without any hanging wire.
While it is likely that I would change the limb positions or eye orientation from time to time, say making a gesture or looking elsewhere I do not intend to have her seated often.
So, first off - is that too much to ask for in any case?
I would like to get answers towards "naked feet on the ground", "Truly flat shoes" and "Slightly tilted shoes" as well, I am not really expecting "high heels" to be an option at all.
From the impression I got of the new silicone recently I feel a need to also ask for feedback on that, as it might be likely to have been possible with the silicons used in 2014 and earlier, but be no longer possible with the currently used "soft" 2015 silicone.
Here's to lots of detailed answers :glou: :angel: :wink:
Kind regards.
優月( Yuzuki) - Orient Industry Koyuki head / Silicone Art Super Styling(SS) body
艶( Tsuya) - Orient Industry Izumi head on Jewel Real Taste 146(L) body
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by haremlover »

With the new silicone I wouldn't do it - although I think it's possible if you don't mind risking a modification - slit the foot for a couple of inches along its length but especially under the leg bone and remove soft silicone and any foam in a triangle
|
\/
and fill this with a harder silicone and resealing the wound invisibly using Permatex on the like to joint the two sides back together again wrapping with clingfilm to ensure a smooth surface.

Even with the old silicone I would not stand them on their feet for longer than necessary for a photo - but with that mod, you might get away with it.

Best wishes

Harem
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by Rick_Deckard »

I think you have to also consider the fact that leaving a doll standing for months will put strain also on the skeleton legs joints, hips, knees and especially the ankles.
These kind of dolls, even the sturdier ones, are not designed to be kept standing for a long time unless, like Harem said, some modification is made...
Do androids dream of electric sheep ?

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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by haremlover »

;-) Well that would be the case if their skeleton was bone and cartilage . . . but their bones are different with the cartilage in a different place so there would be no compression of that. The obstacle is in the silicone and the metal bones cutting through it. . .

Best wishes

Harem
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by mi6c »

Hmm, first off thanks to those who responded :!:

Haremlover, what time did you approx. have yours standing for your photo sessions? Did you try it with the new silicone at all or refrain from even trying after investigating the feet?

I do not wish to have to make any modifications to a doll I'd have to buy new to start with, this is just an investigation into something I wish would be possible.

Maybe I should have choosen the topic a little wider to begin with, as in the end any experience with apart from the balancing otherwise unsupported standing DS dolls would be beneficial.
But alas, the old silicone seems to be gone for good anyway, and from what I can gather through all the other reviews its benefits seem to far outweigh the possible issue of no longer being able to stand as much.

Some more info from folks who actually did put their DS dolls on their feet for photos would be greatly appreciated, even if its not specifically 168s.

Kind regards.
優月( Yuzuki) - Orient Industry Koyuki head / Silicone Art Super Styling(SS) body
艶( Tsuya) - Orient Industry Izumi head on Jewel Real Taste 146(L) body
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by haremlover »

I think that my first DS doll "Aira" stood in the shower possibly for a day, with no ill effects. But she is a harder silicone than either Chloé or Thera (168plus from 2014). Back in late 2012 I think one could order a special soft formulation as Chloé was, or a standard or possibly harder formulation. Aira isn't the most comfortable lady to take to bed.

In that regard the new silicone is both a joy and a particular pleasure to look at.

But the current foot construction means that unsupported the skeleton squidges into the silicone
DSCF3153.JPG
DSCF3153.JPG (579.69 KiB) Viewed 3053 times
so I have not done it again.

Even with shoes I'd really prefer to do it only with modification.

But I have suggested an idea to DS and they sent me some diagrams showing that they are considering various options although increasing the complexity of manufacture. For your purposes, however, you need really quite hard silicone feet and integrating soft and hard to that extent, invisibly, would be a challenge. It's worth writing to DS and asking if they are working on this aspect.

I have seen photos of a 168 for sale from 2014 with damaged feet so I've always been very careful with mine, putting her on the ground gently and not for more than 10 minutes at a time, and she is still pristine as a result.

There is a 2013 old158 for sale at the moment but she has loose joints. With stiff joints she'd be great for posing perhaps as you do but with loose joints for bed I'd want the soft silicone rather than the 2013 silicone.

Best wishes

Harem

PS One possibility that might be interesting would be some sort of bolt that screwed through the silcone into the heel, providing a metal support such as this on a cheap doll
Image
but it looks horrible and then would mean that she could not go in the shower, waterproofing being compromised.
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by mi6c »

Thanks very much for that detailed and super-helpful post, Haremlover :!: :!: :!:
優月( Yuzuki) - Orient Industry Koyuki head / Silicone Art Super Styling(SS) body
艶( Tsuya) - Orient Industry Izumi head on Jewel Real Taste 146(L) body
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by jiayi »

As I presently own a 2013 DS168 (since December 2014) and a 2015 DS168 (since April 2015) I can answer your question from first hand experience. The skeleton is NOT a problem. The silicone at the heel is. On the 2013, I don't worry so much about the downward force, but I do worry about the heel dragging on the floor from side to side. You have to be sure to lift her completely clear of the floor before moving her, in a standing position.
The 2015 is more problematic. As harem's photo shows, the downward force at the heel pushes the silicone out to the sides. You are asking a lot of the new soft silicone (in a few square inches) to support the entire weight of the doll. I use high topped sneakers any time she stands up. This prevents the silicone from moving out to the sides.
So, long term barefoot would work on the 2013 but not the 2015.
BTW you can rotate the foot forward to take some of the load off the heel. Depending on her posture, leaning slightly forward can also relieve some of the weight on the heels.
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by mi6c »

Hi Jiayi.

I knew you had those two 168s so I was crossing fingers you'd stumble across this thread and provide some insight all along.
Thank you very much for doing so :!:
Especially the worry about the sidewards moving on the older one while being stable on the floor is something I would have likely missed, very good point.
As for the high top sneakers and generally confining the silicons movement as well as possibly shifting the weight a little towards mid-foot that is what came to my mind as a possibility when I recently had a chance to see and feel the dolls.
While the doll was hanging, so safely supported and having no weight at the feet, I could basically hold my hand below the mid-feet kinda around the silicon and then try to lift her a little, and while I did not want to try that to actually support the weight( not my doll after all and very thankful for the opportunity to see and feel her in person) it felt as though it might be possible if executed careful enough, but certainly nothing one would want to do casually.

Still, 1st hand long-time knowledge is unbeatable, so once again thanks very very much for your information. :)

Kind regards.
優月( Yuzuki) - Orient Industry Koyuki head / Silicone Art Super Styling(SS) body
艶( Tsuya) - Orient Industry Izumi head on Jewel Real Taste 146(L) body
Tinúviel - EXDOLL Samantha head on Orient Industry Jewel Candy Girl( Jewel 2) body
Yuzuki, Tsuya & friends

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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by DS Doll Europe »

Hi mi6c,
mi6c wrote:I do not wish to have to make any modifications to a doll I'd have to buy new to start with, this is just an investigation into something I wish would be possible.
That's most understandable. However, just for the sake of the theoretical argument, here's an approach that might be possible:

1) Make a negative form of the doll's foot in alginate;
2) pour a reasonably hard silicone; something around Shore-A 40-60 or even Shore-D 10-30 (the last one would have a similar hardness of a shoe heel, but would limit the flexibility of the foot);
3) cut off the doll's foot; either a) above the ankle, or b) around the middle of the foot; a) has the advantage to most easily fit to the leg, but requires additional measures to embed the skeleton; b) the cut would go direcly on the level of the metal plate in the doll's foot and not require to dismantle the skeleton); cutting through silicone is not easy, so you'd need a scalpel to get a clean cut;
4) make a matching cut on the casted foot and glue the pieces together with Sil-Poxy; you might want to consider an additional mechanical lock to allow for the high strain imposed by the weight of the doll.

Downsides in any case: There will be an additional seamline, and it will be very hard to match the doll's skin tone. Material costs are ~€100 per foot, but it would require quite some testing to figure out a proper silicone and to match an approximation of the skin tone.

Sandro

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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by jiayi »

Sandro,
It seems you would need to cast the foot with the mold attached to the doll. I think the chances of removing the material inside a pre-cast foot, to allow the skeleton to fit inside perfectly (otherwise any distortion would show up on the outside shape of the foot) and then inserting the foot skeleton into the new casting would be very difficult. Another option might be to cut off the foot at the ankle, un-bolt the foot from the leg and somehow hold the foot skeleton exactly like the factory does and cast the foot around the foot skeleton. Then re-bolt the foot and glue the seam. Color match would also be an issue.
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by Dollstudio »

jiayi wrote:It seems you would need to cast the foot with the mold attached to the doll. […]
I have given this some thought as I'm keen about the standying capability myself; I think all approaches sketched so far (including my own) are too complicated. For a workaround, we "just" need to cleanly cut off a certain part of the foot and mold exactly this part in a harder silicone. As soon as I can get my hands on a seriously borked doll I'll try a proof of concept.

However, I'm pretty sure that a standing doll made this way will come with other ramifications (gut feeling based on the lifecasts I made so far ;-)

Greetings, Sandro

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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by jiayi »

Hi Sandro,
If you could somehow trim the silicone just below the sole plate and add harder silicone from there down, I think that would solve the compression issue. Hard to say what would be the best way to deal with the toes, but if it were me, I would try and leave them on the doll. So the cut would go vertical at the ball of the foot up to the sole plate, then horizontal back to the heel. Color may not be an issue if shoes were worn. Even espadrill's would cover the seam.
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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by Dollstudio »

That's the basic idea:
cut.jpg
cut.jpg (77.74 KiB) Viewed 2801 times
The thick blue line is an approximation of the bone. The red line would be the cut. Everything below the red line would be molded newly. Problem 1 to solve: My scalpel (bottom right) is a bit too small for a cut of this size, I think. At least I need to practice first to cut deep into soft silicone.

Ah, that reminds me of Aung's wrist which became loose after just one week. Need to fix that first :?

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Re: Seeking 1st hand info on long term standing capability 1

Post by haremlover »

It does not at all need to be so radical

Merely specifically under the bone at the heel and slightly forward of that, and specfically only the width of the metal, plus 3mm or so to wrap around the top of the metal.

Totally invisible from above.

Best wishes

Harem
Latest reviews coming for Irontech and FJ doll silicone ladies.

Chloé's book
Image
is available from The-Doll-House
- - - -
Here's Coverdoll Yolanda
- - - -
Reviews for:
-DS-OR-JY-SY-Jarliet-Vivid-SM-SE-ZOne-JM-Sino-Sanhui-Pipedream--XY-WM-Elsa Babe-SM Silicone Siliko-XYcolo-Starpery-Elsa Babe-FutureDoll-Zelex-Irontech-FJ Doll
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