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I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

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deadpringle
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I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by deadpringle »

Hi all!

My DS167 is such a trooper. She's built like a brick outhouse, and I've been having so many good times with her. But I noticed something. Nothing bad mind you, but something interesting.

I think DS is using a completely new skeleton design in their dolls now. for one, the DS167 seems to use a LOT more silicone, and not so much foam under a 0.5" thick coating of silicone like their older dolls. She is just super soft, especially around the legs and hips.

Secondly, I noticed this when looking at their mini dolls *drool!*

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When I move my DS167's legs, I can hear a very slight squeaking noise, which sounds like plastic. I think they are using this design, or at least part of it, in more than just the mini dolls.

This skeleton looks to be very sturdy, and much easier to repair in the event of a breakage. No welded points to worry about as far as I can tell. Personally, I like this skeleton. I think it's going to prove to be very reliable.

What are all of your thoughts on this new skeleton design?
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by rubherkitty »

If the design is strong enough, a skeleton made of molded plastic parts is the way to go. Cutting steel tubing and welding is time consuming.
Plastic may survive a doll drop better than welded tubing as well. Better to flex then bend a tube or break a weld.
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by DarkOne »

rubherkitty wrote:If the design is strong enough, a skeleton made of molded plastic parts is the way to go. Cutting steel tubing and welding is time consuming.
Plastic may survive a doll drop better than welded tubing as well. Better to flex then bend a tube or break a weld.
Exactly. Some plastics are amazing too, there are glass filled nylons for example that definitely rival steel for strength to weight.

I am not sure many plastics would survive a drop better then steel typically would. regular mild steel has a very large plastic deformation range before failure. Poor welds might snap but good welds will rip the parent metal in half before failing.

One big advantage with plastic is its easier to just design a thick multi flange hinge to be made by the thousands via injection molding that might be difficult to machine/weld in steel. Much less worry about material cost, weight and labor cost for construction. The 2 vs 3 flange design of the hip joints is a good example, this would have been hard to make in steel. Being able to provide such thick beefy joints that are easily made may provide more strength in the event of a drop however.

Plastic on plastic joints can actually wear a lot less then steel on steel with no lubrication, depending on the plastic used. UHMW and teflon provide amazingly low wear with no lubrication for example.

Also plastic can make things that more resemble bones for more realism, and provide features the silicone can mechanically adhere to preventing delamination that is common in dolls with regular round skeleton bones. Thees are some of the features of the DSmini I am rather excited about.

The only major downside to plastic construction is when the wrong plastic is picked (Some plastics are super strong and durable, others weak and brittle. Some survive outdoors/UV, others for indoor use only, Some costly, others cheap. etc), and the cost of the mold requires you to have to produce a lot of parts for it to be cost effective vs machining things out of steel or other methods.

I would however suspect given DSdoll's commitment to quality that they have picked a good plastic for this dolls skeleton.

I don't think welded steel is anything to worry about with proper skill and quality control. Your car is welded together in many safety critical areas. So is every nuclear power plant, aircraft, boat, train, motorbike, bicycle and pretty much everything else that might kill you if it fails. They do however employ some very good welders and often use robotic welders.

I do think lack of skilled labor and quality control is something that will cause any design serious problems: welded, bolted, brazed, glued or riveted. I commend DSdoll's commitment to quality.

As for the OP's question: the squeaking noise could be the lock/spring washers, bolt rubbing in hinge, or a plastic pad between steel members of the hinge. I wouldn't jump to thinking they have already started to make larger DS with large plastic elements. Larger injection molds cost a lot more and they may be using the DSmini to try it out on. Smaller dolls also experience much lower stresses and are more suited to lightweight plastic skeletons.

I would love to hear from DS on this of course, but I wouldn't jump to any conclusions.
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by SynDaverlover765 »

Love it! Can I see a better close up photo of the neck and spine?

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by CrazyCajun »

The pictured skeleton looks to have some distinct advantages, but, it looks to still employ the same dreaded finger wires, until manufacturers start employing finger bones, I will not purchase another doll "And I don't care how often April brings up wanting a sister". The issues with the wrists and fingers are among the most gripes that people have on this forum about their doll ladies, it seems insane that manufacturers would not resolve these issues in a timely manner. These issues are really not that difficult to solve. I really think that which ever manufacturer solves these two issues first will out sell all others for a very long time.
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by DarkOne »

CrazyCajun wrote:The pictured skeleton looks to have some distinct advantages, but, it looks to still employ the same dreaded finger wires, until manufacturers start employing finger bones, I will not purchase another doll "And I don't care how often April brings up wanting a sister". The issues with the wrists and fingers are among the most gripes that people have on this forum about their doll ladies, it seems insane that manufacturers would not resolve these issues in a timely manner. These issues are really not that difficult to solve. I really think that which ever manufacturer solves these two issues first will out sell all others for a very long time.
DSmini does not have finger wires, it just has floppy fingers. To be honest, after having a sanhui 88cm with floppy fingers and a WM with finger wires.. I think I prefer floppy fingers. they 99% point in a sane direction, as opposed to finger wires that always look stupid unless you take great skill in straightening and posing them after every time the fingers bump into something.

What it DOES have, is a proper wrist hinge and palm plate.
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by CrazyCajun »

I agree, if they wont/cant employ proper finger bones, then at least give the option of floppy fingers. Do all of the DS dolls now have proper wrist hinges?
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by ZiLi »

It is just speculation right? It is never mentioned. I tink if skeleton changed, the website will update.

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by haremlover »

CrazyCajun wrote: Do all of the DS dolls now have proper wrist hinges?
They always have had proper wrist hinges. Never been anything wrong with them.

Couldn't do this photo
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nor
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nor
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nor
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nor
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http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=143&t=53715

without proper hinges.

I have been accused of being biased towards DS - but the reason for my enthusiasm for DS is that my DS girls do all I've ever wanted them to do, all I've asked them to do, willingly and without complaining and ably into the bargain.

Best wishes

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by INTJonny »

She is just super soft, especially around the legs and hips.
I pretty much stopped reading after this.
Now I can't stop thinking about soft my 167's butt will be when she arrives!

btw I haven't lurked around the forums for a while now. But my 167 is in the making!!
I own a 160+ right now. Man I'm experiencing the wait again. It's torture.

On the topic of joints, my 160+'s left leg makes a squeaky sound. That's about it. And her right leg joints are loose

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by CrazyCajun »

Hey haremlover, they wouldn't by any chance happen to have proper finger bones would they? Really hope the answer is yes!
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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by Karrot »

One thing to remember is that the first batch of 167's had a smaller foam core. This was a 'mistake' by DS and cause the doll to have more silicone and higher weight. They have 'corrected' this in subsequent dolls.

Personally I think they should offer it as an option. Higher weight for greater softness is a trade off I would take

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by DollOgler »

Karrot wrote:One thing to remember is that the first batch of 167's had a smaller foam core. This was a 'mistake' by DS and cause the doll to have more silicone and higher weight. They have 'corrected' this in subsequent dolls.
Excuse me for asking, but has this been officially confirmed by DS?
If their 167cm doll were lighter that would actually make her more appealing to me.

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by Karrot »

I dont recall where I heard that information first, here of over on the UK forum.

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Re: I think DS is using a completely new kind of skeleton.

Post by LaDollyVita »

DS responds to email pretty promptly. Instead if posting a thread with conjecture, why not just ask them directly and post the answer?

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