Dr. Madshagger performs back surgury on poor Eva

DarkOne · Post by **DarkOne** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:16 am

I think on these threaded rotation joints, the silicone gets into the threads and seizes up the joint. Then combine force needed to unseize the doll plus shipping damage and snap.

Pumpster · Post by **Pumpster** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:21 am

DarkOne wrote:I think on these threaded rotation joints, the silicone gets into the threads and seizes up the joint. Then combine force needed to unseize the doll plus shipping damage and snap.

I'm afraid that right shoulder might snap too some day as it's so stiff to move arm up/down and it surely causes extra stress for the joints. I'm thinking that should I cut shoulder open too and see what's binding or not...

mahoro · Post by **mahoro** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 3:50 pm

Great job on the spine repair and using a pocket knife beats drilling out the thread like I did when doing my repair but the one thing I hadn't got to hand was a pocket knife plus I never even considered using one would work.

I wouldn't count on the new reinforced joint solving the spine breakage problems as my replacement Eve with the reinforced joints has turned up with a broken spine and broken leg which may end up being a broken pelvis knowing my luck.

Mahoro

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:50 pm

This is a disaster zone! Where will this end!
As for the shoulder joint, it looks like it is fairly complex and depends what direction it is stiff in!
Sorry, the second picture attached is not a good one as I just tried taking a photo off my laptop!
Anyway, the arm lifting up from the side outwards is right at the end of the shoulder. However, the twisting movement two allow the arm to move upwards but parallel to the body is done by another of these plastic screw parts! That's not all, the shoulder can lift via lugs on the torso, which is what broke on my Eva1 and not the screw part.
If it's stiff on the screw part it's the same problem as in the torso but if it's stiff at the end or in the lift motion that can probably be cured by slightly loosening the bolt through the lugs!
You may be able to see the construction on the picture of Eva1's broken shoulder. The 'barrel' like part is the housing of the screw part attached to the end part of the shoulder which does appear to be a metal joint!

madshagger · Post by **madshagger** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:02 pm

mahoro wrote:Great job on the spine repair and using a pocket knife beats drilling out the thread like I did when doing my repair but the one thing I hadn't got to hand was a pocket knife plus I never even considered using one would work.

I wouldn't count on the new reinforced joint solving the spine breakage problems as my replacement Eve with the reinforced joints has turned up with a broken spine and broken leg which may end up being a broken pelvis knowing my luck.

Mahoro

Thanks mate. The knife was sort of a last resort. I contemplated buying an easy out, cutting a large slot in it and threadding a screw into the hole, but the material is quite waxy and flakes. I was sort of at a loss as to how to proceed, and just thought brute force and ignorance and a sharp knife might work - I got lucky.... but I can't actually see a better method. So I hope it helps!

I'm so sorry to hear about your replacement... and now looking at hollows pics these plastic joints are just way too fragile! Sounds like the new generation isn't any better.

I'm pretty nervous handling Eva at all now if I'm honest. I'm not sure the replacement will be any better by the sounds of it! I just hope my Eva2 arrives safely.

I think DS needs to rethink using plastic at all.

Pumpster · Post by **Pumpster** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:43 am

madshagger wrote:I'm pretty nervous handling Eva at all now if I'm honest. I'm not sure the replacement will be any better by the sounds of it! I just hope my Eva2 arrives safely. I think DS needs to rethink using plastic at all.

Yeah, every time I move a joint and hear plastic *clunk* I'm startled a little. I think I'm going to sell her eventually because it's just too stressful to think what snaps next, lol. 1AM Riley weights only 3kg more with metal skeleton and I haven't heard she having any such problems so I'd say scratch the whole idea of plastic skeleton.

hollows+fentiman wrote:If it's stiff on the screw part it's the same problem as in the torso but if it's stiff at the end or in the lift motion that can probably be cured by slightly loosening the bolt through the lugs!

I think it's the plastic thread part in the shoulder that's stiff, so another breakage coming up... By the looks of it it would need small cut on her shoulder, undo bolt+nut and then undo the joint with plastic thread to see what's the problem. But I'm sad to cut her open everywhere

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:20 am

Hi Pumpster! I think we're all going to be pretty good surgeons after all this! The shoulder is relatively easy compared to the broken back scenario! There isn't much 'flesh' there but you will have to go right from almost the end of the shoulder to nearly the middle of the back to be able to get to the bolts at both ends. I've used a very sharp kitchen knife for my cutting as it gives a smooth cut.

mahoro · Post by **mahoro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:48 pm

madshagger wrote:I wasn't going to start yet another thread on this, but I figured the post/photos might get a bit buried, and there will be plenty of people doing this surgery themselves by the sounds of it So I hope this is helpful to the other newbies who have never attempted this before, and to the old timers who are waiting on parts and dolls right now as well and include a few fact and tips to help others.

So, my poor Eva's back snapped 12 hours after I got her - I was gutted. I had only just signed up here, and I saw other people having the same issues...

Anyway - I had been dealing with the absolutely brilliant Paul form Cloud Climax UK who handled the import of the doll (as I was scared about seizure after other reports form America). I can't thank him enough for acting as a middle man, getting the doll here fast and pain free, and handling parts, tech, and perhaps more importantly moral support! As well as getting me a replacement Eva from DS at no charge to me. I highly. highly, highly recommend them and give the highest accolades for the communication!

So, on to the surgery!

So, I was told by Paul, and in viewing the DS repair video to go in from the side seam, and for once I'm glad I'm an ignorant old fart and disobeyed all them and cut in to her back, as I am certain now I would have had a nightmare of a time reaching the bolts and certainly would have damaged her silicone if I had tried - at least without an extra set of hands. Instead I cut down her spine, as I rarely look at her form behind or feel her back - and above all I could feel the spire and break so thought it would be the most direct route.

Once I got in I was really sad to see that like the other poster the threaded section has snapped off flush with the upper torso, and getting it out would be a real pain as it was jammed in there good.

I'm positive now that the issue of breakage stems from the fact DS screws this in all the tight, so and twisting motion in transit or after is going to cause the break. The nylon itself seems pretty strong, but the fact it is hollow and supporting all her weight, it is simply sub par for purpose.

Fortunately the replacement was not hollow - inside of it is a METAL pin which is definitely going to be MUCH stronger.

MS.

I've not had chance to open my replacement Eve doll up yet as the replacement parts are probably not going to arrive till late next week but I personally wish DS hadn't put the strengthening pin inside the spine joint as it looks to be an half arsed fix to a joint that just needed to be made of better material and with my replacement doll arriving with this strengthened joint already broken when I received her she maybe almost impossible to repair as I can't see how I am going to get the broken plastic thread out of the torso when there's a metal pin down the centre of it and that's on top of the suspected broken pelvis as well which looks to be a nightmare of a job

Mahoro

Pumpster · Post by **Pumpster** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:21 pm

mahoro wrote:I personally wish DS hadn't put the strengthening pin inside the spine joint as my replacement doll which has this joint that was already broken when I received her maybe almost impossible to repair as I can't see how I am going to get the broken plastic thread out of the torso when there's a metal pin down the centre of it and that's on top of the suspected broken pelvis as well

Just the problem I imagined with this new metal pin reinforced joint, odd that DS engineers can't see the situation. Pin does not help but makes matters worse because threads snap off from the base of the joint. Instead of making nonsense "fixes" like this, how about changing plastic of that joint to something more strong material? They should stop selling these dolls again until they fix these problems for real, either by changing that rubbish toy plastic to nylon or metal, it simply can't handle the added weight of silicone.

Only thing I can think of for now how to get the thread/pin part out:
If there's enough space inside the torso and they haven't glued the metal pin to plastic, hit the pin inwards, then perhaps threads could be grabbed with something (blade/screw extractor) to twist out normally?

I just hope that joint breaks because of rough handling of doll during shipment and it would last better when I replace it by myself. I'd hate to be fixing it again after a while.

mahoro · Post by **mahoro** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:50 pm

Pumpster wrote:Just the problem I imagined with this new metal pin reinforced joint, odd that DS engineers can't see the situation. Pin does not help because threads snap off from the base of the joint and makes matters worse. Instead of making nonsense "fixes" like this, how about changing plastic of that joint to something more strong material? They should stop selling these dolls again until they fix these problems for real, either by changing that rubbish toy plastic to nylon or metal, it simply can't handle the added weight of silicone.

DS have told me they are currently redesigning the joints on the mini dolls but the new updated skeleton may not be here for sometime so there will be more pain to come for people who ordered the mini dolls before DS took them off the website.

I have asked DS to put my Eva order on hold till the new skeleton is ready but have been told I won't be able to have her at the pre-sale price I was offered as the price will inevitably go up so I may just cancel the order and go else where if she ends up being to expensive.

Mahoro

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:23 pm

I think those of us with broken torso joints are all seeing the same problem here. The screw part is hollow and the weakest part of it seems to be at the end of the hole where it meets the flat part of the joint. Putting a pin in it doesn't cure the problem. If the screw was solid plastic it might be better but the hardness of the ABS causes it to have a brittle nature that is good in compression but won't tolerate lateral forces. I think I'd prefer to see this whole screw joint moulded in metal but then it may wear the torso thread! I wonder what DS are trying to come up with? They will need to be competitive with other manufacturers of mini dolls so we'll see! The pre-sale price was a good one but the later price they were going to charge with the skeleton as produced for our dolls was going to be a lot more than some others on the market - beautiful though they are.

DarkOne · Post by **DarkOne** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:42 pm

mahoro wrote:
Pumpster wrote:Just the problem I imagined with this new metal pin reinforced joint, odd that DS engineers can't see the situation. Pin does not help because threads snap off from the base of the joint and makes matters worse. Instead of making nonsense "fixes" like this, how about changing plastic of that joint to something more strong material? They should stop selling these dolls again until they fix these problems for real, either by changing that rubbish toy plastic to nylon or metal, it simply can't handle the added weight of silicone.
DS have told me they are currently redesigning the joints on the mini dolls but the new updated skeleton may not be here for sometime so there will be more pain to come for people who ordered the mini dolls before DS took them off the website.

I have asked DS to put my Eva order on hold till the new skeleton is ready but have been told I won't be able to have her at the pre-sale price I was offered as the price will inevitably go up so I may just cancel the order and go else where if she ends up being to expensive.

Mahoro

Ugh now that is just more confusing. Do I ask DS to delay my replacement doll till the skeleton has been altered?

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:52 pm

Hi DarkOne, it might be worth asking them when the new ones might be ready and what they are doing with the skeleton. However, mahoro said the new ones won't be at the original pre sale price so do we dare ask them what price they are thinking of? Are they going to be worth spending much more on?

neesa333 · Post by **neesa333** » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:29 pm

A Plastic Skeleton!? Why can't Ds use a good aircraft aluminum?

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:42 am

Hi neesa333! DS originally wanted to lower the weight but also make the skeleton more articulate. The movement on these dolls is extraordinarily good and realistic......... when they're not broken! If you've been following the various topics on the DS mini you'll see that we all think they are beautiful dolls. They are not as 'chunky' as other minis because of the plastic skeleton - it's just a shame DS didn't 'road test' them before putting them on the market as they would have found some joints just don't stand sideways pressure because of the hard ABS they've used. The problem with using metal of any kind is that you would probably lose that articulation or it would be very expensive to make - coupled with that the weight would go up! We're all discussing what could or could not be used but in the end it's down to what DS come up with for the next batch/generation!