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Liquid latex as skin on a foamie?

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excentrix
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Liquid latex as skin on a foamie?

Post by excentrix »

Hi :D - new to the forum however been browsing for sometime.

Was directed to the repair maintenance section with my - :idea: idea/ :?: question.

Working on ordering a foamie and had an idea. Coating a foamie head to toe with liquid latex for a soft smooth durable and most likely water resistant skin. I would think could use clear or even flesh color and tint to make whatever skin tone I would like as well as lip color ect...

Has anyone tried or had any experiance in this?

I thinned clear latex caulk to a creamy consistancy and brushed in on soft foam and got good results and thought that liquid latex would work just as well or better.

Any input or comments would be appreciated about latex and the polyeurothane foam over a long period. From reading posts of stuffing latex dolls with foam I would think it would be a good marriage.

Thank you.

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Post by Wonko_the_sane »

Hi excentrix!

I tried this, but just with a small amount to see what happens. The foam soaked the liquid up, because it is an open cell structure. When the latex cures, it closes some of the pores of the foam surface, but not all. So multiple applicatons are necessary. The surface structure will be the same as the foam, rather shrimpeld. Just for that reason you will need serveral layers of latex to get a smoth surface.
One other thing is, that latex shrinks conciderabls when cureing. this means that the surface will be deformed if you don't apply the latex of one layer in one step for the whole surface.
The next difficulty is that you would have to apply the same amount of latex per squareinch to achieve a CONSTANT shrinking. If there is more latex in one area, it will then shrink there more... :roll:
The shrinking problem over a large area is just a speculation, because I didn't try a large surface to see the effect off differend latex thickness. But I was alarmed by the effect I saw at my sample.

Greetings
Wonko :Fade-color
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."

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Post by Nada »

... Hello Wonko...
(Ps, I enjoyed your site and all of those very detailed pictures.)

Just recenty, I had the same "skin shrink" problem while working with a hollow, "soft foam" falsie...

First, I applied some very nice and fluid latex, that BTW I got from "Castle Supply", between two edges of this almost .5 inch (1.2cm) foam "skin" and it made a VERY SOLID joint and proceeded to SHRINK, pucker and scar the front of this smooth breast, terribly. :(

But then, with another test, I did a much thicker latex solution, for a much thinner layer that didn't sink into the foam, on the back of this hollow falsie... (Maybe, we could call this a "primer coat" that provides a bit of "shrinkage safety"?)

And then, after complete and through drying, I did a fairly thin layer, between the two sides and across that "primer coat", only.

(I have waited several days and the shrinkage is minimal or perhaps, EVEN close to non-existant, as far as I can tell?)


... Jim Nada...
(So... What kind of VERY flexable "primer coat" could we VERY LIGHTLY spray onto a foam doll, BEFORE covering her with a very thin and VERY FLUID liquid latex???) And heck... IF this NEW latex outer-skin breaks loose from the primer" then you might have an even BETTER replication of, actually, fairly loose "human skin"

Ps,,, Never forget about "plastic and rubber" compatability PROBLEMs, Doll Folks. 8)

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Post by excentrix »

Hi everyone :D .

Great comments and inputs, thanks! - Realy got me thinking. My thought was also a flexable primer. So I a started looking. Found some interesting items for foam priming, coating and sealing. Will be contacting manufactuers for more info on the products. let you know if I find anything good.

One thing I thought was interesting however is a site called Gaco.com (sorry not familiar with posting a link) which has two "air dry" silicone sealers designed for coating polyurothane foam. One is a solvent based silicone which has an elasticity of 210% while the other is "water based silicone" with an" elasticity of 400%". E-mailed them for further info and currently awaiting reply.

I still plan on experimenting with the latex further on a larger scale, but if fails the water based silicone might be a pliable option.

I'll let you kow if I run into anything else.

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Post by Wonko_the_sane »

Hi,

I like the primer idea. I think the shrinkage can be minimized this way. If you are going to use silicone for sealing you should remind that there are toxic substances in it, so you should not use it for the skin. As a primer, I think it's ok.

I also like the idea, that the skin is somewhat loose, so that a real skin-like felling is the result. But how thick would that layer have to be, to be durable AND realistic? I would estimate about 2-5 mm, and that would result in heavy weight :roll: .
I am trying to make the doll als light as possible, so this option seams unattractive for me.
I'll give it a thought when the first doll is finished, otherwise I'll never finish one :wink:

But the idea is attractive after all. Does anybody know a release agent for PUR/PUR? Or what could be used to lube the layers permantently?

Greetings,
Wonko :Fade-color
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."

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excentrix
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Post by excentrix »

Hello

They state that the water based silicone is a non-toxic form which I though might be a good thing. Only thought about the Gaco.com silicone was how soft, So..........

I found a special FX silicone called "Dragon Skin" 1 to 1 mix fast cure which can be used for "prostetics", masks (so toxic maybe it's not?) ect... It supposidly is a "super soft" fast set silicone with a "1000% elongation" 8O factor that returns to it's original form if streched. It can be tinted and re- coated with itself and repainted with itself with tinting (good for lips, nipples ect...). Sounds to be to be a cyberskin type silicone? Also price is very fair.

Maybe a primer coated with this stuff would be the trick.

Ordered a sample amount and flesh tint to experiment with. should recieve soon. Just had to get it to play with :P ! Will advise on results.

:?: Does any one know if the JP foamies are a polyurethane foam or actually possibly a latex foam?

By the way what is "PUR/PUR"?

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Post by Nada »

Wonko the sane wrote: ............................................

I also like the idea, that the skin is somewhat loose, so that a real skin-like felling is the result. But how thick would that layer have to be, to be durable AND realistic? I would estimate about 2-5 mm, and that would result in heavy weight :roll: .
... Wonko, do you have an inflatable latex doll?
Then, there is the "beginning" of the Answer to your question. :)

I would say that 1mm or down to EVEN less than .5mm, perhaps, would be a very good Start?

After all, the thinner the outer skin, the more naturally it flexes...
(Until, this "Balloon" POPs!!!, that is.) ;)
To me, having air-release openings becomes a necessity for any stuffed, thin-skinned doll.


... Jim Nada...
(IMHO,,, you could have the very softest foaming-job, in the world...
BUT,,, if the outer-skin won't match this softness then THERE is your "softness limiter or govenor" within that skin, you might say?) 8)

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Post by excentrix »

:idea: Just another quick thought!

Sray a thin coat of the air cure silicone spray specifically designed for polyurethane foam to use as a sealer - Then if the Dragon skin is actually what it states then it can be used as the outer skin. I Know from previous experiments and iregularities in the cyberskin type silicones can be corrected with a small hobby torch or even a butane lighter. It melts just enough to flow and level out smoothly and does not compromise the strength. This is how I repair my Kobie Tai P&A and others if tares happen. A slight melt ( don't overheat or it will burn) and it liquifies, blends and goes right back together and once cools (run under cold water to cool faster) it's as good as new!

By the way did any one know that the soft silicone toy products could be melted and reformed any way you like? Perfect way to repair tears ect... or melt down an old one to make whatever you want :wink: .

Just use adiquit ventalation (stove vent ect..) sure the fumes are not the best for you. P.S. don't burn your self - like dropping hot melt on you but hurts more! Proceed at own risk.

Sorry to get away from the latex but as I said you guys got me thinking-hope this is OK.

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Post by Nada »

... Thank You,,, Excentrix,,, for all of your very important warnings about "Hot Melt Gel" or simply, "Jelly" products. :) :) :)

And, to continue your "Safety Research", please, try the "Doll Health and Science Forum, DH&SF, below.

(Ps, Quatlox has promised some more of his very fine research studies, shortly.)


... Jim Nada...
(So,,, Excentrix,,, how about "Vulcanized Silicone" (VS) as an idea, for the creation of a fairly thin and flexable skin?)

And IF this (VS) material can be proven as being completely "Medically Safe" then IT just might be one of those "Best of Both Worlds" scenarios, that ALL of our dolls and toys could REALLY benefit from, right now.)

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Post by tmech »

excentrix:

If by JP you mean, the dolls from Rubberskin - Japan, they are solid silicone dolls like RDs, not foamies.

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Post by excentrix »

Your welcome.

On the melting issue I was actually talking about standard soft flesh like silicones like the cyberskin type and alike. I think some are called UR3. not the hot melt gels or jellies. The soft silicone flesh like products can be melted and formed and or repaired that way. I would think an example would be products made of materials like the jiggly boobs. I've read of everyone trying to repair them with silicone or silicone repair kits but not heat. I found this out when I had to make a repair to an entry and no solvent or adhesive would work right and regular silicone was not soft enough and did not have a repair kit. So I found a lite melting to the torn area would reblend the silicone together as original. almost like candle wax becoming liquid, blending and then cooling as a whole with a nice smooth surface. As a matter of fact the surface ended up smoother and was an improvement.

I don't know because I never felt one but this might even work on tears in realdolls?

I will research the vulcanizing silicone. Do you mean RTV?

Thanks Nada.

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Post by excentrix »

Oh yeh almost forgot "temech"

Sorry :oops:

By JP I mean "japanese" foamies like the ones from Pandora (Rumiko ect..) not JP Site dolls.

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Post by Nada »

excentrix wrote: ................................................................

I don't know because I never felt one but this might even work on tears in realdolls?

I will research the vulcanizing silicone. Do you mean RTV?

Thanks Nada.
... Hello Excentrix...
"RTV" means something like "Room Temperature Vulcanising" silicone... Which the same as RealDolls, SuperBabes, etc... Which does not need special "heated molds" to keep that silicone mixture as a fluid until it settles into the molding's details.

http://www.kellysearch.com/gb-product-81753.html

... here is a nice, general site for silicones...
http://www.gesilicones.com/silicones/am ... ault.shtml

And here is their HCE Heat Cured Elastomers and silicone page...
http://www.gesilicones.com/silicones/am ... tech.shtml

((( All of this heating process and the required special "heated" molds to produce a very thin "vulcanized silicone skin", with perhaps a very generalized "skin texture", might be a real beginning towards our first "true" replicant skin...)))

... So,,, maybe,,, I'm being "WAY too early", like 10 or 20 years, with this discussion about a robotic "replicant skin" ???) But,,, when,,, are we allowed to "Start a Dream",,, doll folks??? 8)

... Obtw, Wonko,,, here is another "Doll Dream" that I have been at a LOSS to find on the web...
(Ps,,, this all started with stuffing a Latex Lady with various foams.)

But,,, with a foamie doll,,, we might be able to "reverse this process" with very generalizes, for her over all dimensions and VERY THIN, almost balloon-like,,, latex clothing?

This new pre-made "latex skin" would, in effect, BRIDGE over all of her roughness... BUT,,, then you would need to pull-in some critical areas around her breast and butt cleavages, with perhaps, some very thin latex straps under her breasts and a very thin g-sting for her butt area???

(Found a site in Vienna, Austria... But it seems MUCH TOO oriented towards much thicker human latex cat-suits and these are a bit pricey, folks. :(

http://www.latex.at/
(ALSO,,, they have seemed to have LOST their English and Spanish pages... Sorry.) :(
But,,, their picture presentations is STILL pretty darn HOT !!! ;)
So,,, please click "Galerie" and then that "Galerie 13 with the clear-pink latex demo and then start dreaming about a more complete "cat suit" effect, with matching clear-pink instead of black "joining" pieces, on your foamie,,, because,,, they actually BUILD them, there!!! :)

... One, last, "bottom line" foamie latex-skinning idea, then I will leave you folks, alone... Simply find the "RIGHT SIZE" of latex doll that, generally, fits ALL of her dimensions... And, IF it is thin enough, then simply stretch and adjust this skin for a "final fit" and hopefully, a VERY BEAUTIFUL and fairly cheap body!!!

... Jim Nada...
(Simply another Doll Dreamer,,, but an Extrodinare one, I hope?) 8)

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Post by Wonko_the_sane »

Hi Folks :-)
... Wonko, do you have an inflatable latex doll?
Then, there is the "beginning" of the Answer to your question.

I would say that 1mm or down to EVEN less than .5mm, perhaps, would be a very good Start?

After all, the thinner the outer skin, the more naturally it flexes...
(Until, this "Balloon" POPs!!!, that is.)
To me, having air-release openings becomes a necessity for any stuffed, thin-skinned doll.
Hm allright :-) I actually have an inflatable vinyl doll, but that skin is far from beeing realistic ;-)
I tried to flex my own skin and I have to admit, that it is quite thin ;-)
By the way what is "PUR/PUR"?
I ment a release agent which is used to separate PUR form PUR. That is, because _I'm_ using PUR only for my doll. (PUR = Polyurethane)

By the way, Nada, I'm wondering why the professionals (Realdoll, First-Androids,...) didn't try to use silicone foam. I don't have the equipment to try it out, and thats's probably the case for the professionals too that they didnt't try something like that.
Melted polysyrole for example is mixed with a gas, that will become liquid under preassure. If the preassure is released, the gas, solved in the polystyrole, will evaporize and expand the polystyrole to a polysyrole foam that we (probably ;-) all know. This way one combine the properties of polystyrole and light weight. If it's possible to produce a foam with very little bubbles, I think the problem of heavy weight can be minimized, even if the foam only would be used inside the doll.

Greetings,
Wonko :Fade-color
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."

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Post by excentrix »

Hello Wonko;

Found a release agent for soft foam. Not sure if it's what your looking for?

But you can see. Go to www.smooth-on.con then search for "ease release 1700".

Site also has some other interesting products.

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