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Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

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Koen
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Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Koen »

It took me a while... actually a quite bit more than that :roll: ... several years to be honest to figure out what I am about to show you.

Proudly I present to you: the unbreakable hands :D . Or better the 'not so easy to break skeleton of the fingers' in the hands :? .
Now you probably would expect that my invention only concerns ScoonimDolls, but I think that the dollmakers amongst you might find this topic most interesting because the system can very likely be adjusted to fit other type of dolls as well :wink: .

Let me show you my design sketch and final prototype first:

Image

Image

You may wonder why I reveal the details of my invention (no it is not patented). The simple reason is that even though the invention solves a difficult problem, in my current design the amount of time needed to make the skeleton for even a single hand is so much substantial that I do not expect this invention to be a solution for mass production. And I think that this fact will almost certainly rule out the interest of just about every professional dollmaker that has financial capacity to get ideas by buying them :( .
Just to proof my point:

All professional dollmakers that are interested to buy a license to use my invention I ask now raise their hands! :D

Anybody???... :?

....Going once....going twice... :|

... nobody! Just as I thought :roll: .

Now of course I might as well try to sell it to the semi-professional and amateur dollmakers amongst you. After all for you time is not an issue and it is very likely that my design for unbreakable hands is for you nothing less than a gift from heaven... :wink: .So, I will refrase the question and I will even toss in the magic word:

Will all non- and semi professional dollmakers amongst you that even slightly consider to pay for using my idea which took me years to develop, for which I had to make numberous tests and prototypes and which might save me and my poor family from the gutter ( :puppydogeyes: :cry: :cry: :cry: ), will you (magic word:) PLEASE raise your hands...?

Anybody???... :)

Let me remind you that I said 'please'... :?
.......
.............................I am still waiting......... :(
...............................................


Hmm, awkward silence,... not entirely unexpected I admit. But it was worth it to try.

Ok, so here is the deal:
If you want to use this idea, you are free to do so, provided that you are not going to use it commercialy without my approval. And if you use it just for your own doll(s), then please mention me in your credits.

Koen

P.S.
In case you are wondering which part is actually the key part of the invention(-s . There are 7 !). It is mainly in the poseable PP wire with tape core which runs through the whole of each finger, which connects the phalanges into a solid whole and making genuine poseable joints in the knuckles :evidence: .

P.S. 2
Don't forget to watch the presentation photoshoot of Ardanwen in this months issue of CoverDoll (April 2014)

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by toonist »

Wonderful! Though I see no reason to deride professional doll makers. It's actually quite similar to our dolls full skeleton. Keep up the great work.
P

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Koen
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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Koen »

toonist wrote:Wonderful! Though I see no reason to deride professional doll makers. It's actually quite similar to our dolls full skeleton. Keep up the great work.
P
I am sorry. I was not aware that my text could be explained as deriding other professional dollmakers. It was certainly not my intention.

Koen

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by rubherkitty »

Beautiful work and thanks for sharing.

Yes, it is a complex design and most commercial doll makers couldn't use this due to the cost of doll increase. Maybe a home builder could borrow your idea and give you some credit!

Is the thumb bone held onto the palm solely by copper wire 10 or is there a core piece hinged to the palm?

Thanks again!
RK
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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Tybalt »

Good work! Does this eliminate finger pokes? Your next project should be to solve the ball of the heel poke. Or even a way to get dolls to stand without assist.

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by MannequinFan »

Wow very nice Koen. That's very generous of you to share all of that hard work.
That's also a very nice illustration (I like nice drawings!).

The thing that really sticks out to me is the hard fingertip which is a great idea to prevent finger pokes. I'm assuming that's a harder silicone?
As long as you can get a good bond between the harder fingertip and the finger that should work wonderfully.

Perhaps this should be a sticky in the inventor's corner?

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by pygmalion2 »

I have a similar design for Katie's hands.
Unfortunately they have not eliminate the finger poke through's.
Yours is a much more elegant design than mine. You need to address the problem of bonding the metal
to the silicone skin. The Mechadoll * dolls have designs that have much reduced the
finger poke through issue. Just my two cents.
FingerBones01.jpg
FingerBones01.jpg (33.76 KiB) Viewed 2853 times
FingerBones03.jpg
FingerBones03.jpg (44.19 KiB) Viewed 2853 times
HAND10.jpg
HAND10.jpg (26.74 KiB) Viewed 2853 times
* removed, see http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=38015
<em>I know the good artist</em>

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by AikoDoll »

This is a great design!. I am making my own 58cm silicone doll as a hobby. I was wondering if you had any advice on how I should pour the silicone into my mold? Do I only pour from the top? But how will the silicone go down to the fingers and toes? Or do I push it in with pressure from the feet and hands. I want to make a single pour body. I seen your website and the dolls you have all lined up after they we poured. The look very nice, you dolls are smaller then my 58cm doll I am trying to make so it should be easier for me I think since I am working with a bigger mold. Thank you for any tips you can give
Open for Business. Visit us at our website http://www.AikoDoll.com

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Everhard »

It looks great. Hands, it seems, are one part of the human body that zillions of years of evolution have made particularly sophisticated and hard to replicate artificially.

I would think that, from a business perspective, you could only make a profit from life-size dolls with those hands by creating them as commissions for millionaires. However, experience shows that my opinions on how to make a profit ain't worth shit.
:mrgreen:

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by dollman2 »

that is some great work Koen :thumbs_up:

great design.

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Koen »

Wow!!! :D :D :D Thank you for your responses and questions! :thumbs_up: I promise to answer them all, but they will be spread over several of my posts. I cannot answer them all at once because several of my answers will be quite timeconsuming for me to make (my posts are usually summaries of bigger texts that I write as answers or responses).
rubherkitty wrote:Beautiful work and thanks for sharing.

Yes, it is a complex design and most commercial doll makers couldn't use this due to the cost of doll increase. Maybe a home builder could borrow your idea and give you some credit!

Is the thumb bone held onto the palm solely by copper wire 10 or is there a core piece hinged to the palm?

Thanks again!
RK
I hope that my ideas will be useful for others. And indeed home builders are free to borrow them. I even will be happy to make useful suggestions when requested. Of course I hope to get some credit in return. For my sales the value of you guys mentioning your appreciation for my work in the various places on the doll fora has proven to have many times more impact than any advertisement.

To answer your question: The connection of the thumb to the palm of the hand is basically the same as the fingers. The copper wire is wrapped around two metal phalanges from which the first one is solded to the base part of the hands palm. The double synthetic core runs through the whole of the thumb, and it is anchored (on one side of each phalange). The distance between the phalanges ( the joint) below the copper is slightly more than the other knuckles because of the requested movement for this joint. This however and the fact that this joint has more skin mass around it that needs to be kept in position negatively influences the function of the joint here. The 'thick' copper wire is overcome this problem. It assures the posing of this joint(keep it in requested position) in all directions , while the core prevents the copper to move uncontrolled, preventing it from creating weak spots.

I hope this answers your question. There is more to this to tell, but I know you are quite handy, so I trust you can fill in the gabs :wink: .

Koen

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by rubherkitty »

Thanks!
You must be a microsurgeon or watch maker in your non doll life. All too tiny for me. Maybe a full size hand I would attempt!
Going downtown. Gonna see my gal. Gonna sing her a song. I'm gonna show her my ding dong! C&C

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Koen »

Tibalt wrote:Good work! Does this eliminate finger pokes? Your next project should be to solve the ball of the heel poke. Or even a way to get dolls to stand without assist.
Indeed these fingertips do not poke :D . It is a development I already made a long time ago and all of my ScoonimDolls have it 8) .
The hard finger tip is not silicon, but a hard ( non-stretcheable) type of PU which I cast prior to the casting of the rest of the body. It has to be hard otherwise it would not respond to the tiny anchors I make in the skeleton of the finger tips. If the material of the finger tips would be even slightly stretchable these anchors would not have any effect and then the risk of poking would still be very high.

The poke of the heel ball is also something I have thought about and solved. The solution is basically the same as we ourselves have: callus :!:
The system that I use for this has two aspects.
The first aspect concerns the body material of the feet (and hands).
After placing the skeleton back in the mould ( I needed to take it out to refine the cast of the finger tips and add the pigmented rubber coating) I cast the feet (and hands) with a different hardness of body material than the main body because I want them to be made of a harder type of soft skin than the body. The harder the skin/body material the less risk of poking or other skin damage.
The second aspect concerns the skin itself.
Pretty much by accident* I have discovered that it is possible to harden the top of the skin with a certain chemical compound. The effect looks like callus. It does not so much strengthen the skin, but it prevents the skin from damage caused by the surrounding. Also the palm of the hands and fingers get this treatment, but of course I make sure that the callus there is not as thick an on the heels.

(* I was looking for this, but the solution came out of a most unexpected corner. It was at first a undesired side-effect of another experiment that I did! 8O )

As for your remark about eliminating the stand assist. I know where to get strong magnets that are specially designed to be used for adding below doll shoes or casting into feet for dolls that are needed for animation. But I have no experience with it myself. I have thought about it, but the scale and skeleton of my dolls at this moment do not leave much room to add this kind of extra part. But as you will understand it already has my interest and attention :)

Koen

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by Koen »

After re-reading my previous post I noticed that I left something out which I should have mentioned.
Koen wrote: .....After placing the skeleton back in the mould ( I needed to take it out to refine the cast of the finger tips and add the pigmented rubber coating) I cast the feet (and hands) with a different hardness of body material than the main body......
Koen
What I have forgotten to mention was that the casting of the harder soles (feet) and hands and the casting of the softer body needs to be done in the same casting cycle (wet-in-wet casting).

MannequinFan wrote:....the hard fingertip which is a great idea to prevent finger pokes. I'm assuming that's a harder silicone?
As long as you can get a good bond between the harder fingertip and the finger that should work wonderfully.
Hi MannequinFan,

As I already mentioned in my response to Tibalt: the fingertips are not silicone. They need to be hard. But you may be interested to know that also the soft skin my ScoonimDolls is not silicone. I use a kind of PU for this. But this is mainly because of my moulding system from which the forming part is made of transparant silicone. The advantage of having a transparant mould is that I can better monitor the casting and make adjustments during the casting process if neccesary.
ScoonimDolls soft PU and soft silicones are pretty much equal in strength and elasticity. However the different material the bonding of PU however requires the use of other material than you use for silicone.

The bonding of the soft skin to the fingertips is excellent. For this bonding I 'developed' a special primer which is one of my 7 inventions for the hands. Unfortunately it is unlikely that this primer will also work on silicone.

Koen

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Re: Design sketch for unbreakable joints in doll fingers

Post by kharn »

Great design my friend :D :thumbs_up: . Please bring a prototype if possible to the UK/European meet. I know most would love to see it.
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