Lifetime of TPE doll without powdering and rehydration

Cubiko · Post by **Cubiko** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:22 am

In my experience the super soft dolls are much more prone to damage (when moving around, dragging, putting on and removing clothes etc.) than the harder ones (common sense I suppose...), and I would choose a harder doll over a soft one any day - even for bed play. They also require very careful posing when stored, as they will more easily tear if areas like armpits and groin are under stress when stored. Lastly they are much more oily, and although that looks insanely sexy on photos it is a bit of a mess in everyday life. And TDF members advice new doll owners to _add_ even more oil to these dolls by regular oil treatments - that just sound crazy to me, and a recipe for disaster. What these super soft dolls need is more frequent cleaning followed by powdering.

I just recently let three of my Jinsan dolls go, one from 2013, one from 2014 and one from 2016. They were all of a harder TPE formula and have all lived a rough life as photo models, indoor and outdoor (two of them also as regular sex partners), and aside from the occasional broken fingers and loose joints (Lord! a loose joint doll is the ultimate sex doll!) they were in almost pristine shape - not a single tear. They were all powdered just once in their lifetime, never oiled.

I think we need to take one step back and accept harder TPE, it makes owning a doll easier IMO.

Stewie studmuffin · Post by **Stewie studmuffin** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 2:31 am

Here's a related thread:

https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 7&t=116068

Arthur1960 · Post by **Arthur1960** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:11 am

I would say that my experience over the past 3 years would point to the firmer tpe being the more durable. Of course, as we know, there are so many variables at play with regard to the longevity of tpe it's hard to have any hard and fast rules as what works in one environment and with one tpe blend may cause deterioration in another. So from my personal observations: my eldest doll, YL148D (Elizabeth) is now 3 years old and the damage this body has incurred has all been at my hand, from falls to botched repairs and, as I suspect, over oiling (hands particularly). Thankfully, tpe being what it is, can be worked with to a degree, so my 148 is still very much on active service. Last October I got Celeste, my OR167G, she has a softer tpe and so I made a decision not to oil her at all and see how she went. With Celeste I have only done some very minimal powdering and she has only had one initial washing after arrival. To this day the only evidence I can see of any problem with her tpe is on her collarbone area are about 3 or 4 very tiny cracks that are only visible right up close. I've seen this before on one of my newer YL148's (also softer tpe) and in both cases I've rubbed a little Vaseline into the area as my take on this is that this particular spot is subject to downward pull of their breasts (both are big gals) and as can happen on elbows if left at an angle, the tpe can begin to separate and if it's particularly warm the process happens quicker. I just checked on Celeste and I had a job to locate the little cracks so this tells me the Vaseline has helped (this is just my opinion of course). Both of these gals could probably do with better supporting bra's to counter the effects of gravity but I don't think I should necessarily be starting to give them more frequent baby oil rubs (and Celeste has yet to have one at all) but rather just be observant for any area of tpe that could be under tension. Now elbows, knees and wrists are obvious points to watch but I hadn't considered the collarbone area with a buxom lass. Now why I think mandos is spot on with his observations is that two of my gals, Keiko (WM145D) and Athena (WM158D) both have 2017 bods that are of the firmer tpe blend and with both I struggle to find any obvious signs of aging/deterioration. I do apply Vaseline to armpits and elbows infrequently and they have only had a couple of baby oil rubs in the last 2 years. They are not heavy gals and have more modest breasts which must all be in their favour I guess and believe it or not they both have all their fingers intact too! Mind you most of my newer gals still have good fingers as I learned to be careful plus they did change the wire being used in 2017 so although it still breaks it's stronger than the single strand stuff from 2016. So while the softer tpe may feel great it probably needs more careful handling (but not loads of oiling) just be observant for those area's that are subject to stress, remember to put your gal into a neutral position after having fun or posing her and she should be around for a good while. Obviously this is all my personal opinion based on my experience with my ladies and anything I do here in the UK (with its current schizophrenic weather) may not be suitable for your environmental conditions.

DARKSUN · Post by **DARKSUN** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 6:19 am

No, in my limited experience the TPE doesn't just start crumbling and disintegrating and falling off. it just gets tears, breaks and holes from age, material fatigue, wear and tear.
I cant speak for others, but what I mean by "falling apart" is general, overall degradation of entire doll, including the skeleton, joints, limbs, the TPE body flesh and surface features.
(Again with the caveat, that I give almost no care or maintenance, so some of this is my fault and could be avoided if i put in some effort)

and again this is only my limited experience with only owning two dolls, ever, and my personal opinions. and all these conditions/results vary widely with brand, manufacturer, TPE blend, etc.

Skeleton - have limited posing / articulation ability to start with, and joints slowly or quickly get way too tight or too loose in all the wrong places. joints break. the skeleton/joints get rusty and gummed up with "stuff" starts to stink from the inside, smells like rotting something

Fingers - wires for finger bones are never strong, or make effective, attractive natural looking hands/fingers, and the wires break, become disconnected, puncture through hands and fingers and fall out

Hand plates - weak, poorly connected, cant properly support dolls weight when posing/positioning certain ways, and often dont hold any pose properly, break become disconnected from "arm bone" easily

Surface features - pigmentation of nipples, lips, eyebrows, etc. wears off and you have to manually color/paint it on if want those details. finger nails, eyelashes fall off, eyeballs though very realistic appearing are somewhat problematic to pose, adjust perfectly

Wigs - ugh.

Feet - subject to damage when moving, bathing, dressing, or doing standing poses

TPE material - its just prone to damage because its soft and pliable, but things like having here stand up on her own weight, or squat down on here hands and knees, the weight of the doll forces the skeleton to penetrate the thinner parts of the TPE and eventually puncture through and create holes.
the friction of her knees, hands or feet contacting the floor or whatever other surface, when under her own weight, causes tears and abrasions to outer surface of TPE. she gets scrapes and tears from contacting things with here weight behind her

im sure that has all been said a million times before, and its mostly common sense and basic strength of materials science. but i never gave it much thought until dealing with it first hand and reevaluation the investment/loss situation. I paid around $1500 for the WM155CM DD, and due partly to my lack of care, she only lasted about a year, then into the trash she went. still i suppose its cheaper than a divorce, or a years worth of prostitutes.

seakay7777 · Post by **seakay7777** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:58 am

I really don’t see my doll too much and therefore don’t do much maintenance at all, but you see TPE gets sticky after not maintaining. So, after about 6 months the stickiness keeps all sorts of dust, lint, hair etc. Then I’ll bathe her thoroughly, oil and powder. It’s a pretty quick, and fun, process and she winds up as good as new. I guess I have the firmer TPE... I like the tip of oiling more frequently in the areas that flex more.

Arthur1960 · Post by **Arthur1960** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 8:21 am

Thread moved to Repair and Maintenance as issues being discussed are not specific to WM.

Dollover2000 · Post by **Dollover2000** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:02 pm

Agalmatoreveur wrote:
What do you mean when you say that your doll is falling apart? I've read a few stories about dolls deteriorating and can't figure out what that means. Does the TPE dissolve? Does it become brittle and crumble? Or does it just go mushy and lose its shape? Or are you just talking about taking more damage than you think they should because they're more fragile? I'm understandably nervous, since these descriptions make it sound like the TPE flesh literally falls off their skeletons.

This. These was taken in May and the spots have gotten worse since with no provocation.
It just begins to separate. And the doll has by no means “dried out” whatsoever.
I have a bunch of other WM’s that are just as soft so we will see how they do as they age. They are still fairly new.

Agalmatoreveur · Post by **Agalmatoreveur** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:11 pm

Dollover2000 wrote:
Agalmatoreveur wrote:
What do you mean when you say that your doll is falling apart? I've read a few stories about dolls deteriorating and can't figure out what that means. Does the TPE dissolve? Does it become brittle and crumble? Or does it just go mushy and lose its shape? Or are you just talking about taking more damage than you think they should because they're more fragile? I'm understandably nervous, since these descriptions make it sound like the TPE flesh literally falls off their skeletons.
This. These was taken in May and the spots have gotten worse since with no provocation.
It just begins to separate. And the doll has by no means “dried out” whatsoever.

That's absolutely horrifying - So these can also start with abrasions, or they just appear? And the two schools of thought are "oil often" and "never oil, it causes TPE to break down," which doesn't help.

Dollover2000 · Post by **Dollover2000** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:16 pm

Since you put it that way… Yeah, it is all about experimentation and at the same time it’s a “crapshoot” so to speak.
And mine just “appeared.” They weren’t from abrasions.
And I think that “oil often“ is kind of an outdated adage due to the previous formulas of TPE that required it more than the newer ones do.

WaffleAnomaly · Post by **WaffleAnomaly** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:32 pm

Oh wow. Thank you for the clarification pics. People say TPE degrades all the time but rarely does anyone clarify on what that means.

It also kinda looks like a downward spiral waiting to happen. Once the surface gets like that I'd imagine any stress would just open up a canyon along those spots

Agalmatoreveur · Post by **Agalmatoreveur** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 5:41 pm

What kind of TPE are your dolls made from Dollover? Mine are ultra soft, which feel like they'd be less prone to brittleness and dryness, which makes me doubt the opinions that harder is best.

Have you tried using a heat gun onto these areas to attempt to reflow the TPE?

I wonder if Mishka would have some advice about this.

Dollover2000 · Post by **Dollover2000** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:21 pm

Agalmatoreveur wrote:What kind of TPE are your dolls made from Dollover? Mine are ultra soft, which feel like they'd be less prone to brittleness and dryness, which makes me doubt the opinions that harder is best.

Have you tried using a heat gun onto these areas to attempt to reflow the TPE?

I wonder if Mishka would have some advice about this.

Just the regular WM TPE. They haven’t dried out at all and I haven’t tried any repair as of yet. And when I’ve ordered from WM since then, I tell them no extra-soft TPE.
I noticed my softer, more oily WM‘s were the first to come apart. This theory was mentioned in another thread elsewhere about there being too much “softener“ in the TPE mix to keep the TPE a substantial dexterity.
One guy broke it down in scientific terms, the TPE and how the extra softener is added and combining my theory based off of what he said, made a lot sense to a great deal of people that were experiencing similar situations and/or owned similar made Dolls.
The harder TPE compounds do not lose oil at as fast a pace...therefore it wouldn’t be any more prone to drying out sooner (Due to the fact it is harder), than the oily extra soft. After all, stiffer TPE starts out drier to begin with.
I have the ever famous 166 “athletic“ and she has a hard body. Which she should, having a muscular physique like she does. She is still as nice as the day I took her out of the box and I’ve literally done nothing since initial powdering. She has hardly leached in two years she’s been standing. She’s the stiffest doll I have TPE-wise.

Agalmatoreveur · Post by **Agalmatoreveur** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:33 pm

So I wonder where that leaves people with dolls like Piper Dolls, which are legendary for being super soft. Does that mean that Piper Dolls, and dolls from Doll Forever, are going to start falling apart like an epidemic? Or could there be something about the TPE from WM Dolls that is causing them to degrade, I wonder.

You said the photographs are of dolls made of regular TPE, but that the very soft dolls you have also degraded. That probably means that all TPE is going to fall apart, whether hard or soft.

Dollover2000 · Post by **Dollover2000** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:36 pm

Don’t really know about piper dolls or any other name brand other than WM really. I do have an a AF and a few JY’s but they are still fine. But they are a stiffer TPE than my WM’s are.
Regular WM TPE is STILL incredibly soft. WM has been experimenting with their formula so all of their TPE is softer than it used to be.
The vulnerability of the “extra soft“ TPE was already established before I came onboard the topic many moons ago.
It was actually Jeff at BCD that it originally brought it to my attention.
I have WM’s that are of various softnesses. It is the softest ones that are falling apart.

Dollover2000 · Post by **Dollover2000** » Fri Aug 23, 2019 7:45 pm

WaffleAnomaly wrote:Oh wow.

It also kinda looks like a downward spiral waiting to happen. Once the surface gets like that I'd imagine any stress would just open up a canyon along those spots

Yeah, when I noticed it was getting worse, I angled her head downward to make her look at the floor and it compressed the area and has helped keep it from spreading apart as fast.