Size of the love holes

[Mazyl]

Hi,

I am considering ordering the JSD 148 silicone doll, but I have concerns about the size of the love holes as it will mainly be used for sex. They look really tiny on the promo pictures.
Many silicone dolls have very small holes, which are very uncomfortable for larger guys and prone to tearing.
Does Jiusheng offer different size options?

Also, are there images of the internal textures?

[The Doll Man]

My personal impression is that small holes are perfect and ideal,
because the material is stretchy and elastic.
I think that the tightening sensation is much better with smaller openings,
a good lubricant in a better quantity should solve all problems..

[jiusheng-doll]

Around 32mm thick, this one is for the use of silicone body internal. This is the standard.

[Mazyl]

My personal impression is that small holes are perfect and ideal,
because the material is stretchy and elastic.
I think that the tightening sensation is much better with smaller openings,
a good lubricant in a better quantity should solve all problems..

That's very personal actually. I don't mind a tight opening as long as it doesn't tear, but I can't enjoy a tight inside.
It's like Fleshlights. Most people think the tighter the better, but it really doesn't work for me. I find it painful when it's too tight.

Around 32mm thick, this one is for the use of silicone body internal. This is the standard.

Thanks a lot, that was very helpful!

[horrorhorry]

Hmm.. yea I also think the opening looks to tiny, I do believe the Silicone is softer then before so that should help, still the 148 and even more the 168 could use some improvement in looks and placement as well, I hope they will do some improvements, I still love there 168 a lot .. LHP just need some tweaking.

[zodraZ]

As for LHP: I thought I had read that the 148 was molded from a real woman's body. And the 168 is a scaled-up version of the same sculpt.

[DollCommander]

Moving this from this thread

viewtopic.php?t=164396&start=120

as not to muddy up CrazedCat's eye candy thread. I just realized it wasn't a JS forum thread.

Just got this model in silicone few days ago. It seems like with most dolls, the anus tears up, this happens when I try to stick a paper towel in there to clean / dry. Does anyone have a solution on how to repair a silicone model?

Son of a mf'er..from a paper towel?? JS let's get this under control.

** this is not to beat JS up, I am a long time JS fan. I want them be successful and to make a better product for customers who will be satisfied and then refer more customers to JS. These issues are not exclusive to JS. **

But let's make one thing clear to JS and buyers..If you want an anus (or any other opening) to be sexually functional without tearing, it must be sized appropriately (aka large). Forget about pea sized entrance holes on silicone dolls, they will tear without fail. There is a reason why silicone dolls that are known to be capable of surviving sexual use have larger entrance holes. Aesthetics or durability in actual use, pick one because you can't have both.

Now, let's look at some JS photos and try to figure out what is going on..

People see photos like this and think.."Wow! a large elliptical opening that likely won't tear but can easily be adjusted by the user for tightness by simply opening or closing the legs! Nice! A win/win for everyone including JS, since they will avoid customer complaint!"

file-141.jpg (76.46 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

But what they don't see is that the actual entrance is much smaller and just as likely to tear as many other dolls, because the actual entrance is shrouded by the labia and not visible in many shots.

file-4.png (382.74 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

file-5.png (662.84 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

file-1.png (268.53 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

Lets look at their vaginal cavity mold insert..

file.png (439.83 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

file-1.png (268.53 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

The cavity may possibly be decently sized (JS claims 32mm or so), but the actual entrance obviously isn't as can be seen in the photo. The tearing will occur at the entrance, not mid cavity.

It is hard to tell how large the anal opening is because the photo is cut off, but evidently based on multiple reports it is not nearly large enough.

Now JS claims new softer silicone blend and that sounds good...but we can't forget that even if a silicone blend is as soft or even softer than TPE (very possible, more than one manufacturer currently offers this), it will never be as elastic as TPE. Softness and elasticity are two completely different properties, just as strength and toughness are two completely different properties. Increased softness does not mean increased elasticity and resistance to tearing.

What is the solution? First of all, pump the brakes on commiting to a full production mold and just releasing product without thoroughly vetting a proposed design. We all know that once a full production mold is made, the chances of any manufacturer making needed changes are extremely slim to none until the mold is worn beyond repair. If you want to be successful the first time, you need to do the following..

- Start by showing proposed designs (CAD/3d models/drawings) and ask for feedback from real, experienced users before any physical prototyping takes place.

What needs to be evaluated and addressed:

- Love hole placement. The vaginal and anal entrance holes need to be placed in natural positions to be easily accessible and useable from all common positions, including from behind (doggy). There are a handful of manufacturers who get this right currently, so it certainly is possible. This is what you should be aiming for (a low cost TPE doll from a low end manufacturer by the way), as it is fully functional in all positions from mercenary (from front) to doggy (from behind). And look, no crazy vagina gaping even with the legs spread wide!

file-130.jpg (137.53 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

file-139~2.jpg (128.9 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

- Love hole and cavity/tunnel sizing (specifically in silicone). One major complaint that users have is entrance holes and cavities/tunnels that are too tight, making a doll painful or unuseable and/or causing tearing of the material. Silicone is much less elastic than TPE (even if as soft to the touch as TPE) and entrance holes and cavities/tunnels must be sized accordingly. The simple solution is to err on the side of caution and make the entrance holes and cavities/tunnels much larger. Why? Because tightness can be adjusted by the user by either opening or closing the legs to achieve a tighter or looser fit. If a entrance hole cavity/tunnel is too tight by design, nothing can be done to make it looser without risking tearing and destruction. Another solution would be multiple entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts of different sizes, to allow the customer to choose sizing that will most likely work for them. Many silicone doll manufacturers use entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts that thread into the main body mold, meaning this can easily be done. Look, same cheap TPE doll as above, you see the entrance size?

file-132.jpg (174.5 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

^ this is a TPE doll, your silicone doll entrances should be at least as big as this at a minimum. Let's go back to your doll..what looks to be the entrance here is how big the entrance should actually be (and the anus at least twice as big as shown) if you want to curb complaints of painfully excessive tightness and tearing.

file-141.jpg (76.46 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

While we are at it..entrance holes must be intelligently designed with rounded v.s. hard edges that create stress risers (see below), otherwise tearing at the entrance hole will occur, especially when combined with excessive tightness and silicone's low elasticity. Nothing makes a customer more angry than an entrance hole that gets torn on first use.

file-142.jpg (23.38 KiB) Viewed 1267 times

- Cavity/tunnel direction and angle. Cavities/tunnels should be directed with a neutral angle (straight in) with the legs bent at the hip (doll on back with legs up in mercenary position and doll on all fours in doggy position etc.). Extreme angles in the opposite direction of natural penis travel within the cavities/tunnels can and do make dolls unuseable. If that means that the cavities/tunnels need to have a pre angle at rest in order to straighten out with legs bent, then this should be considered and compensated for.


- Testing. Testing prior to commiting to a final, full production design/mold can identify these issues and eliminate customer complaint, anger and tarnishing of a manufacturers reputation. Entrance hole/cavity/tunnel design, sizing and angle can all be tested and confirmed with hip and masturbater size prototype molds before commiting to a full body mold. Will it take more time? Yes. Will there be some more expense? Yes. But it will save the manufacturer from building a reputation for making unuseable dolls and drastically increase customer satisfaction. These need to be tested by real, experienced users in all target markets (including the western market, where penis size tends to be larger on average) before being released as a production model.

[DollCommander]

I think the problem is more with the hardness and rigidity of the silicone for the LHs rather than the size of the openings. That's what I believe caused the rip on mine 100%. I have 3 other dolls with similar sized LHs but the silicone is so soft, pliable, and durable that there has been zero tears. One one I even had a speculum inserted and opened max width just to illustrate how stretchy the silicone is.

file-150.jpg (174.11 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

file-151.jpg (124.95 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

I had a silicone doll that's vagina and anus were nearly as firm as a dogs chew toy with zero tearing. Silicone blend will play a part, but only so much because silicone has material limits. It cannot be as elastic as TPE, just as carbon fiber can be as strong (or stronger) as steel but can never be as ductile as steel etc.

This opening (**** brand which is what I believe you are refering to)

file-143.jpg (4.63 MiB) Viewed 1262 times

Is no where near as small as this (JS 148)

file-4.png (382.74 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

^ you literally have to tear it to even get into it! It's so small I can't even highlight it without covering it!

Let's look at the JS provided cross section again

file-1.png (268.53 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

^ you would be lucky to get a No. 2 pencil in there without causing even a little bit of stretch, so imagine the average human penis?

What about the **** 148 v.s. JS 148 anus size? Let's take a look..

**** 148 fixed vaginas and anus

file-144~2.jpg (128.47 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

file-149.jpg (175.95 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

With inelligently designed rounded entrance like this

file-129~4.jpg (13.19 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

v.s.


JS 148

file-146.jpg (135.03 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

With hard edge angles (stress risers) like this

file-129~3.jpg (10.91 KiB) Viewed 1262 times

Idk man, nothing I'm seeing indicates these two dolls are in the same galaxy, let alone ball park. The ****'s are known to be sized large and for good reason, it is how they are able to survive sexual use. In silicone, either the opening needs to be sized small for aesthetics or sized large for useability/durability, can't have both (especially at the anus which doesn't have labia to shroud the opening and add to aesthetic appeal).

[AnonTheMan86]

Moving this from this thread

viewtopic.php?t=164396&start=120

as not to muddy up CrazedCat's eye candy thread. I just realized it wasn't a JS forum thread.

Just got this model in silicone few days ago. It seems like with most dolls, the anus tears up, this happens when I try to stick a paper towel in there to clean / dry. Does anyone have a solution on how to repair a silicone model?

Son of a mf'er..from a paper towel?? JS let's get this under control.

** this is not to beat JS up, I am a long time JS fan. I want them be successful and to make a better product for customers who will be satisfied and then refer more customers to JS. These issues are not exclusive to JS. **

But let's make one thing clear to JS and buyers..If you want an anus (or any other opening) to be sexually functional without tearing, it must be sized appropriately (aka large). Forget about pea sized entrance holes on silicone dolls, they will tear without fail. There is a reason why silicone dolls that are known to be capable of surviving sexual use have larger entrance holes. Aesthetics or durability in actual use, pick one because you can't have both.

Now, let's look at some JS photos and try to figure out what is going on..

People see photos like this and think.."Wow! a large elliptical opening that likely won't tear but can easily be adjusted by the user for tightness by simply opening or closing the legs! Nice! A win/win for everyone including JS, since they will avoid customer complaint!"
file-141.jpg


But what they don't see is that the actual entrance is much smaller and just as likely to tear as many other dolls, because the actual entrance is shrouded by the labia and not visible in many shots.
file-4.pngfile-5.png
file-1.png


Lets look at their vaginal cavity mold insert..
file.pngfile-1.png


The cavity may possibly be decently sized (JS claims 32mm or so), but the actual entrance obviously isn't as can be seen in the photo. The tearing will occur at the entrance, not mid cavity.

It is hard to tell how large the anal opening is because the photo is cut off, but evidently based on multiple reports it is not nearly large enough.

Now JS claims new softer silicone blend and that sounds good...but we can't forget that even if a silicone blend is as soft or even softer than TPE (very possible, more than one manufacturer currently offers this), it will never be as elastic as TPE. Softness and elasticity are two completely different properties, just as strength and toughness are two completely different properties. Increased softness does not mean increased elasticity and resistance to tearing.

What is the solution? First of all, pump the brakes on commiting to a full production mold and just releasing product without thoroughly vetting a proposed design. We all know that once a full production mold is made, the chances of any manufacturer making needed changes are extremely slim to none until the mold is worn beyond repair. If you want to be successful the first time, you need to do the following..

- Start by showing proposed designs (CAD/3d models/drawings) and ask for feedback from real, experienced users before any physical prototyping takes place.

What needs to be evaluated and addressed:

- Love hole placement. The vaginal and anal entrance holes need to be placed in natural positions to be easily accessible and useable from all common positions, including from behind (doggy). There are a handful of manufacturers who get this right currently, so it certainly is possible. This is what you should be aiming for (a low cost TPE doll from a low end manufacturer by the way), as it is fully functional in all positions from mercenary (from front) to doggy (from behind). And look, no crazy vagina gaping even with the legs spread wide!
file-130.jpgfile-139~2.jpg


- Love hole and cavity/tunnel sizing (specifically in silicone). One major complaint that users have is entrance holes and cavities/tunnels that are too tight, making a doll painful or unuseable and/or causing tearing of the material. Silicone is much less elastic than TPE (even if as soft to the touch as TPE) and entrance holes and cavities/tunnels must be sized accordingly. The simple solution is to err on the side of caution and make the entrance holes and cavities/tunnels much larger. Why? Because tightness can be adjusted by the user by either opening or closing the legs to achieve a tighter or looser fit. If a entrance hole cavity/tunnel is too tight by design, nothing can be done to make it looser without risking tearing and destruction. Another solution would be multiple entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts of different sizes, to allow the customer to choose sizing that will most likely work for them. Many silicone doll manufacturers use entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts that thread into the main body mold, meaning this can easily be done. Look, same cheap TPE doll as above, you see the entrance size?
file-132.jpg


^ this is a TPE doll, your silicone doll entrances should be at least as big as this at a minimum. Let's go back to your doll..what looks to be the entrance here is how big the entrance should actually be (and the anus at least twice as big as shown) if you want to curb complaints of painfully excessive tightness and tearing.
file-141.jpg


While we are at it..entrance holes must be intelligently designed with rounded v.s. hard edges that create stress risers (see below), otherwise tearing at the entrance hole will occur, especially when combined with excessive tightness and silicone's low elasticity. Nothing makes a customer more angry than an entrance hole that gets torn on first use.
file-142.jpg


- Cavity/tunnel direction and angle. Cavities/tunnels should be directed with a neutral angle (straight in) with the legs bent at the hip (doll on back with legs up in mercenary position and doll on all fours in doggy position etc.). Extreme angles in the opposite direction of natural penis travel within the cavities/tunnels can and do make dolls unuseable. If that means that the cavities/tunnels need to have a pre angle at rest in order to straighten out with legs bent, then this should be considered and compensated for.


- Testing. Testing prior to commiting to a final, full production design/mold can identify these issues and eliminate customer complaint, anger and tarnishing of a manufacturers reputation. Entrance hole/cavity/tunnel design, sizing and angle can all be tested and confirmed with hip and masturbater size prototype molds before commiting to a full body mold. Will it take more time? Yes. Will there be some more expense? Yes. But it will save the manufacturer from building a reputation for making unuseable dolls and drastically increase customer satisfaction. These need to be tested by real, experienced users in all target markets (including the western market, where penis size tends to be larger on average) before being released as a production model.

What is that low cost doll with good LHP? It looks really nice.

[ondsdoll]

As for LHP: I thought I had read that the 148 was molded from a real woman's body. And the 168 is a scaled-up version of the same sculpt.

The LHP with the 168 TPE is different than the 148 TPE

[magnussam]

Moving this from this thread

viewtopic.php?t=164396&start=120

as not to muddy up CrazedCat's eye candy thread. I just realized it wasn't a JS forum thread.

Just got this model in silicone few days ago. It seems like with most dolls, the anus tears up, this happens when I try to stick a paper towel in there to clean / dry. Does anyone have a solution on how to repair a silicone model?

Son of a mf'er..from a paper towel?? JS let's get this under control.

** this is not to beat JS up, I am a long time JS fan. I want them be successful and to make a better product for customers who will be satisfied and then refer more customers to JS. These issues are not exclusive to JS. **

But let's make one thing clear to JS and buyers..If you want an anus (or any other opening) to be sexually functional without tearing, it must be sized appropriately (aka large). Forget about pea sized entrance holes on silicone dolls, they will tear without fail. There is a reason why silicone dolls that are known to be capable of surviving sexual use have larger entrance holes. Aesthetics or durability in actual use, pick one because you can't have both.

Now, let's look at some JS photos and try to figure out what is going on..

People see photos like this and think.."Wow! a large elliptical opening that likely won't tear but can easily be adjusted by the user for tightness by simply opening or closing the legs! Nice! A win/win for everyone including JS, since they will avoid customer complaint!"
file-141.jpg


But what they don't see is that the actual entrance is much smaller and just as likely to tear as many other dolls, because the actual entrance is shrouded by the labia and not visible in many shots.
file-4.pngfile-5.png
file-1.png


Lets look at their vaginal cavity mold insert..
file.pngfile-1.png


The cavity may possibly be decently sized (JS claims 32mm or so), but the actual entrance obviously isn't as can be seen in the photo. The tearing will occur at the entrance, not mid cavity.

It is hard to tell how large the anal opening is because the photo is cut off, but evidently based on multiple reports it is not nearly large enough.

Now JS claims new softer silicone blend and that sounds good...but we can't forget that even if a silicone blend is as soft or even softer than TPE (very possible, more than one manufacturer currently offers this), it will never be as elastic as TPE. Softness and elasticity are two completely different properties, just as strength and toughness are two completely different properties. Increased softness does not mean increased elasticity and resistance to tearing.

What is the solution? First of all, pump the brakes on commiting to a full production mold and just releasing product without thoroughly vetting a proposed design. We all know that once a full production mold is made, the chances of any manufacturer making needed changes are extremely slim to none until the mold is worn beyond repair. If you want to be successful the first time, you need to do the following..

- Start by showing proposed designs (CAD/3d models/drawings) and ask for feedback from real, experienced users before any physical prototyping takes place.

What needs to be evaluated and addressed:

- Love hole placement. The vaginal and anal entrance holes need to be placed in natural positions to be easily accessible and useable from all common positions, including from behind (doggy). There are a handful of manufacturers who get this right currently, so it certainly is possible. This is what you should be aiming for (a low cost TPE doll from a low end manufacturer by the way), as it is fully functional in all positions from mercenary (from front) to doggy (from behind). And look, no crazy vagina gaping even with the legs spread wide!
file-130.jpgfile-139~2.jpg


- Love hole and cavity/tunnel sizing (specifically in silicone). One major complaint that users have is entrance holes and cavities/tunnels that are too tight, making a doll painful or unuseable and/or causing tearing of the material. Silicone is much less elastic than TPE (even if as soft to the touch as TPE) and entrance holes and cavities/tunnels must be sized accordingly. The simple solution is to err on the side of caution and make the entrance holes and cavities/tunnels much larger. Why? Because tightness can be adjusted by the user by either opening or closing the legs to achieve a tighter or looser fit. If a entrance hole cavity/tunnel is too tight by design, nothing can be done to make it looser without risking tearing and destruction. Another solution would be multiple entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts of different sizes, to allow the customer to choose sizing that will most likely work for them. Many silicone doll manufacturers use entrance hole/cavity/tunnel mold inserts that thread into the main body mold, meaning this can easily be done. Look, same cheap TPE doll as above, you see the entrance size?
file-132.jpg


^ this is a TPE doll, your silicone doll entrances should be at least as big as this at a minimum. Let's go back to your doll..what looks to be the entrance here is how big the entrance should actually be (and the anus at least twice as big as shown) if you want to curb complaints of painfully excessive tightness and tearing.
file-141.jpg


While we are at it..entrance holes must be intelligently designed with rounded v.s. hard edges that create stress risers (see below), otherwise tearing at the entrance hole will occur, especially when combined with excessive tightness and silicone's low elasticity. Nothing makes a customer more angry than an entrance hole that gets torn on first use.
file-142.jpg


- Cavity/tunnel direction and angle. Cavities/tunnels should be directed with a neutral angle (straight in) with the legs bent at the hip (doll on back with legs up in mercenary position and doll on all fours in doggy position etc.). Extreme angles in the opposite direction of natural penis travel within the cavities/tunnels can and do make dolls unuseable. If that means that the cavities/tunnels need to have a pre angle at rest in order to straighten out with legs bent, then this should be considered and compensated for.


- Testing. Testing prior to commiting to a final, full production design/mold can identify these issues and eliminate customer complaint, anger and tarnishing of a manufacturers reputation. Entrance hole/cavity/tunnel design, sizing and angle can all be tested and confirmed with hip and masturbater size prototype molds before commiting to a full body mold. Will it take more time? Yes. Will there be some more expense? Yes. But it will save the manufacturer from building a reputation for making unuseable dolls and drastically increase customer satisfaction. These need to be tested by real, experienced users in all target markets (including the western market, where penis size tends to be larger on average) before being released as a production model.

I won't speak to JSD silicone dolls (since I only have a TPE one). To me, the shrouded vagina design is actually great both functionally, and aesthetically. The shroud actually replicates the anatomy of a woman more so, and creates another "layer" of texture to pop yourself into. I have been thinking the other day that it probably is a bit more difficult for JSD to manufacture dolls in this way, (it probably makes it harder for them to remove the vagina molding rod, as opposed to a design where the vaginal opening is bigger, and does not have this additional layer inside the "shroud") so I actually think they do this for visual appeal (and I find all of their newer dolls very appealing). Again maybe this is just a matter of taste.

I am not an anal man (plus my doll is TPE) so the anus has never torn (i insert tampons for cleaning and am pretty rough with cleaning, so far no problems, and my JSD gets a lot of use. I have popped into the anal canal once or twice by "accident").

Perhaps the design of the orifices are better suited to TPE material properties. Also, I am average in size, and my JSD fits me fine. Feels really really good actually.

Now I do own silicone dolls from other brands, and I do have to say that I can understand why you would need to design the orifices differently than TPE dolls so maybe this is the issue with JSD (in that, they designs better TPE dolls in terms of function than silicone dolls???). My other doll is one of those that go for broke with realism, and the anus, and now the vagina has definitely torn. Pictures included in this thread references Tayu, which shows how they construct their orifices to prevent tearing (thoughtful designs for sure) but I do not find the anal orifice and the general look of the vaginal orifices of their dolls visually appealing (with the exception of the new 158c. Leads us back to what doll commander mentioned a while ago I guess, with silicone you have to choose either visual realism or functionality, you can't have both?

I guess I will stick with TPE for my next purchase.