Color consistency of TPE skin tones

Post by **Dollstudio** » Tue May 17, 2016 12:13 pm

Hi,

I need some help from you guys. Today we received for the second time within a couple of weeks a TPE doll from Jinsan factory with a skin tone that does not match the same skin tone from previous orders.

My question to all doll owners (and vendors) who can compare skin tones from those that were shipped a couple of months ago with those that are currently shipped: Do the skin tones match exactly, or are there deviations?

Here is a recent example. This is a torso from Oriental Rose in skin tone "OR Brown" (yes, it was supplied directly from OR Doll, not through an agent):

: DSC02698.JPG (231.64 KiB) Viewed 3955 times

To choose a skin tone we use these pictures for reference (the pictures come form OR Doll, but were taken about one year ago):

: or-skin-tones.jpg (122.75 KiB) Viewed 3955 times

Visually under normal daylight, the skin tone of this torso matches "OR Pink", but not "OR Brown". White balance for the photo above is on the white padding below the torso. OR Doll explicitely confirmed that the torso above is "OR Brown". So the skin tones appear to have shifted quite a lot. "OR Brown" used to be an almost chocolate brown, whilst "OR Pink" used to be a light tan a couple of months ago.

This is not the first time. Only a few weeks ago we had a Jinsan head (Jinsan = factory that manufactures WM/OR/YL Doll) that was significantly shifted to the lighter skin tone (from ordered "Normal" respectively "OR Skin" to almost "White"). This (new) head did not match well to the (older) body as the skin tone was more light.

Is anyone else experiencing something similar? If skin tones from WM/OR/YL are no longer consistent with what they used to be, it raises a new issue when obtaining new heads months or even years after the doll's purchase.

Thank you for any observations or pointers!
-Ira

DollAfficionado · Post by **DollAfficionado** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:02 pm

I have not ordered one of your dolls yet, but I have noticed a lot of inconsistency in skin tones throughout the entire doll marketplace. It would almost be better to just have a customer send the MFR a color sample & have them try to match it as close as possible.

I once ordered a replacement head for a 125cm TPE doll. The body was natural skin tone & I ordered a natural skin tone head. When I received the head, it was significantly lighter than the body I owned.

I don't know what the solution is, but it is most definitely an issue that needs to be addressed.

DarkOne · Post by **DarkOne** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:13 pm

Clearly this is another result of just sloppy workmanship.

A dab of this and a dash of that instead of taking a $0.50 syringe and measuring an exact amount of dye for the TPE to achieve consistency even across different workers who have different ideas of a 'dab' and a 'dash'

One thing i'll note however is the white balance looks a bit off on the torso picture at the top. the foam is kinda pinkish and the shadows are pinkish as well.

By doing some basic white balance compensation it does turn a little more brown:

: torsobrown.jpg (121.61 KiB) Viewed 3882 times

Incidentally, if we take the photo of the brown OR doll, then apply the exact same white balance filter (after copy/pasting over the text)

We get this:

: topbrown.jpg (49.35 KiB) Viewed 3880 times

Photo become a lot lighter.

They are a lot closer now, but yes indeed its still rather far off. Lighting conditions including exactly what type of light is used can drastically change the color of objects however.

Xephyr · Post by **Xephyr** » Wed May 18, 2016 10:34 pm

Got a pantone book handy? Need to convert perceived color to actual color in a setting with neutral white (4000K) lighting. Flip through and find the matching color, take a shot of the matching page placed on top or next to the body. Share the pantone code so people can then view the flat color on the pantone.com.

Wish more doll companies would do this so we have a better idea of the skin tone we're receiving.

DarkOne · Post by **DarkOne** » Wed May 18, 2016 11:19 pm

Xephyr wrote:Got a pantone book handy? Need to convert perceived color to actual color in a setting with neutral white (4000K) lighting. Flip through and find the matching color, take a shot of the matching page placed on top or next to the body. Share the pantone code so people can then view the flat color on the pantone.com.

Wish more doll companies would do this so we have a better idea of the skin tone we're receiving.

Yep pretty much precisely this. There is already lots of solutions for color matching as dolls are not by far the first industry to have this problem. It would be great if doll manufactures would at least consider using one of them.

bootylover24 · Post by **bootylover24** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:20 am

I'm interested in a YL doll, but want to make sure I get the right skin tone. I would like to pick the natural white looking tone in the OR picture, labled OR Skin. Not white, or pink. YL photo shoots are all but one tan in their site.

Should I pick natural? I don't want pink. And the white from the OR pic has a hint of yellow.

bootylover24 · Post by **bootylover24** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:29 am

Does anyone know where this picture comes from? Does OR/WM/YL use same tones?

Post by **Dollstudio** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:24 am

Xephyr wrote:Got a pantone book handy?

Got $551.65 for a Pantone Portable Guide Studio or $205.00 for a Pantone Color Guide?

No, I dont have a Pantone book. Last year a customer brought a RAL Color Guide which is simliar, but we could not find a visual match for Doll Sweet's "Brown" skin tone. The next idea would be to use a colorimeter, or a spectroradiometer to get some objective measurements. Though, this stuff is expensive and complicated. Also, to make sense, it requires color calibration on multiple ends.

What we want is:

a method to properly compare skin tone consistency coming from one factory, through time;
a method to properly compare skin tones coming from different factories, at a given time, and maybe through time as well;
a means for manufacturers to make a consistent skin tone and verify color consistency;
a means for customers to visualize a skin tone at home; and
as a bonus, a procedure to mix color pigments at home for repairs, based on a defined skin tone (no more transparent Sil-Poxy seams).

To accomplish this, the customer, the manufacaturer, and the vendor needs to use calibrated equipment (please correct me if I'm wrong; I'm no expert in this). Also we are working with the assumption that color pigments are stable and skin tones do not change or shift through time. I believe the latter assumption is false, but I can not prove it, unless I can measure it ;-/

Regarding color calibration, I think we can safely assume that >80% of the doll manufacturers do not use color calibrated equipment for photography or quality control. On the client side, except Xephir, who is using a calibrated monitor?

Regarding light sources for photography, it's also a bit complicated. According to the manual, my video lights emit "ca. 5400 K" (fluorescent lamps). Also I have a macro ringlight which is supposed to emit "5800K ± 200 Kelvin" (LED), and a studio flash with two heads and unknown color temperature (originally designed for XEHU 75/165, halogen). Ah, and my clip-on flash emits "approx. 5500 K" (without color temperature conversion filter) respectivey "approx. 3200 K" (with color temperature conversion filter), but I'm usually using a bounce reflector, so the reflected colors of walls, ceiling etc. blend in.

Now, for example, assuming my macro ringlight keeps to it's specification ("5800K ± 200 Kelvin", meaning 5600-6000 K, which is crap already), and I'm taking pictures in a room without any other light source, I should get a more or less defined color if I set my camera to 5800K. Then no editing and no color corrections in GIMP. If someone at the customer end looks at this photo with an uncalibrated monitor, can be anything.

Any ideas or suggestions?

Sandro

Mishka1965 · Post by **Mishka1965** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:17 am

YES!, my WM161 doll tan is lighten tan than what I have ordered before. The saving grace is it's subtle, but nevertheless different. It's very bad that they are not consistent, when ordering their tan

Mishka

Cubiko · Post by **Cubiko** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 1:47 pm

The brown photo is not of a doll with brown skin, it is what they called tan back then. That is an YL doll and I especially asked YL for a dark tan. Also I lighted that scene with very warm light in order to get her really dark so it is not a good photo for OR to use to show the skin colour. WM/OR/YL have improved the brown skin much since then and the newer generation dolls I have do have a much nicer and richer brown/tan color and does not need to be lighted with warm lighting to get that deep tan any more.

Post by **Dollstudio** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 5:19 pm

Hi mandos,

it's great to see you here! You are a rare visitor…

mandos wrote:The brown photo is not of a doll with brown skin, it is what they called tan back then. That is an YL doll and I especially asked YL for a dark tan. Also I lighted that scene with very warm light in order to get her really dark so it is not a good photo for OR to use to show the skin colour.

For fairness' sake I'd like to mention that Zihan posted a new skin tone image last week:

: or-skin-color.jpg (57.18 KiB) Viewed 3564 times

Also the skin tones were relabeled, so maybe the long-standing confusion about their skin tones is finally ending. Let's hop so.

When taking pictures of a tanned skin tone, it often involves playing with skin tones like here with
Doll Sweet's "Brown" and "LPink". I consider this artist's license and is part of the fun. On the other hand, what is the "real" skin tone when trying to make an "objective" picture?

This is a quick snapshot taken with two fluorescent lamps at "ca. 5400 K" (one light from the left and one from the right):

: DSC02826.JPG (208.32 KiB) Viewed 3564 times

(LTR: Maidlee Doll Maid-Fong, Candy8teen Amber, Doll Sweet Emily in skin tone DS-Brown)

This is already a manipulation because I put the lightest head in the middle, where the light intensity is strongest, and the brown head on the right, where light intensity weakens. I guess this would be acceptable because the picture captures my subjective impression of the skin tones. But it is not objectively "true".

A similar effect is this shot from a mannequin. Both hands have the same skin tone, of course. Though, the hand on the left appears lighter (because it is closer to the light source), and the hand on the right appears almost brown, but it is not even underexposed.

Sandro

CrazyCajun · Post by **CrazyCajun** » Sat Jul 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Boy did I ever notice a difference, Sam at WMdolls was supposed to send me a new body. He had all the information from my original order. Following is what I got, of course the one with no head is the body he sent me. He said nothing about having changed the skin tone until after the body arrived. And only offered to sell me another head at a discount. When asked if he would guarantee that he could match the new body, he said he could, well we will see, as I have not received it yet.