Pissing into the wind

[Dollstudio]

Hi,

in Germany we have an idiom 'gegen den Wind pinkeln'. It is hard to translate and keep the meaning, but one of the connotations is to do something which does not make too much sense at a given time.

wind.jpg (216.3 KiB) Viewed 1722 times

(image source @flickr)

I believe our Chinese friends are exercising this odd tradition right now. One could also call it a collective case of really, really bad timing.

What I mean is: One manufacturer after the other tries to push upper-range and high-end products into the market.

Doll Sweet launches the industry-leading, but super-expensive Summit series right in the middle of a global pandemic.

Xycolo tries to establish a new lineup of high-end dolls with an over-the-top skeleton when customers are afraid to loose their jobs.

Sino-doll launches the upper-range model line Top-Sino right when customers are too scared to shell out large amounts of money.

Designer Mizuwali had developed a beautiful silicone doll back in 2015. The product was never sold, instead he co-founded Doll Forever and the Piper Doll lineup. With TPE dolls. For years I tried to convince him to follow-up with silicone. Year after year there was supposedly no way to proceed with silicone. And when did they launch the Piper Silicone lineup? Right in the middle of a global pandemic.

I could go on with many more examples.

Sure, all these products do not fall from the sky over night. There is an offset before product launch for development.

But timing could not be worse for all these attempts to climb up into the upper range and high-end market segments. All these products become available at a time when the market demands exactly the opposite.

The purchasing pattern I am observing in the past months could not be clearer. Customers buy, with very few exceptions, cheap products. Most popular are miniature dolls, fabric dolls, and torsos. Here and there a couple of TPE dolls are purchased. The preferable price range is around $1,000 or lower.

But the segment where it starts to cost serious money? Medium-range and upper range silicone? Dead loss.

Recently, some of the manufacturers have started to push harder for sales. I get questions why all these great high-end products don't sell.

Is this really surprising? Customers are supposed to pay a lot of money in advance, then they are forced to wait for months.

Some manufacturers have responded to lower turnover by reducing their service levels. For some dolls, you won't even get factory photos anymore.

I think it won't work this way in the long run. Transit times for shipping need to be predictable, and for any pre-paid product, factory photos need to be made. Service levels should be enhanced to get trust back. And yes, trust is lost if shipments travel for 80+ days and nobody is able to tell anything about the whereabouts.

Guys, please stop 'pissing into the wind'. What we need at the moment is reliable shipping and trustworthy service levels. If you figure that out, more customers will consider to purchase high-end dolls.

/** rambling off **/

Sandro

[DG]

Sandro, I agree with you, wholeheartedly. Not to mention, better and more sturdy/protective shipping boxes with more protection on the inside, plus better quality control for these dolls is a must!

[anikisan]

Thanks guys. As a multiple purchase customer from onaholes to hip masturbators to torsos and eventually, to full love dolls over the years, one key thing that kept me coming back for more purchases would be the level of customer service and integrity. I had vendors cheating me and believe me, I will do EVERYTHING in my power as a veteran marketer to bring them down. However, that being said, like you guys mentioned, for the love doll industry, customers are paying a lot of money upfront without any form of assurance that would ensure what they are paying for with their hard-earned money. Reviews? Stop kidding me, for these can be faked. Promises? Empty wind (they might as well fart in my face). At the end of the day, in this sector, most customers are at the mercy of the sex doll vendors/manufacturers. Sure, by all means scam your customers, but at the end of the day, our collective intelligence will see to your downfall. So, watch out.

[Out_Of_Sync]

I totally agree Sandro!

Fix what's blantently broken now before venturing into new territory! Please fix the poor quality hands and feet and protect the dolls much better during shipping. Please pay attention to customer service, if a mistake is made or quality issues occur, fix them immediatly with a replacement doll, not a small cash discount or free head. That leaves the customer disappointed. Gaining customer trust through rapid attention to customer satisfaction will gain you many more customers in the future.

One suggestion to any customer who receives exceptional service from a vendor or manufacturer: Let us all know about it through high praise. Let's see those manufactures and vendors sail to the top of the heap.

[g0ldenmk2]

It doesn't help that most of the expensive dolls are not much better quality then the cheaper counterparts, do to poor quality control. There are plenty of examples just on this forum alone.
I want to buy a silicone doll, but I am scared shitless, and gambling with 4000-6000 dollars is not my idea of responsible financing. I've only been a doll owner (2 dolls) for about 1.5 months, and I've experienced the full four seasons already, and I am super reluctant to ever buy another doll already.

[justintime]

I don't know Sandro, I think only vendors/doll makes are the ones that can answer this question as to doll sales, not members.
From the looks of back orders on high end dolls , they seem to be doing pretty good..
I for one am happy to see the continuation of doll evolution.
The C19 sucks, but we all got to work at what we do the best we can. In many cases, I am sure business is the same as always, mine is through the roof. I can not meet demand.
I think form my perspective, I like to see people pushing through, and not letting this pandemic keep them down.
I know I am one of the lucky ones and I tried to gathered my wagons in a circle quickly.

Wishing for safety and good health for us all, and hope this will be over soon.

But yes, their is much room for improvement in service areas.

g0ldenmk2

Post subject: Re: Pissing into the wind
It doesn't help that most of the expensive dolls are not much better quality then the cheaper counterparts, do to poor quality control. There are plenty of examples just on this forum alone.
I want to buy a silicone doll, but I am scared shitless, and gambling with 4000-6000 dollars is not my idea of responsible financing. I've only been a doll owner (2 dolls) for about 1.5 months, and I've experienced the full four seasons already, and I am super reluctant to ever buy another doll already.

Agree 100%

[YungSynth]

All very good points. But on a side note, I didn't know that phrase originated in Germany, i learn something new every day

[Tyr]

Since when has logic had any part in corporate decisions? LOL!

[BuilderOfCastles]

Two pieces:

Doll manufacturing is extremely problematic. One error, just one, turns a perfect doll in to a perfect mess.
Mold misalignment, improper mixing, bad timing, poor adhesion, slip of skeleton placement...

Making a doll is an art.

And so, you could do everything right, and end up with a slightly inferior product, or worse, a pile of junk.
Then you have to understand the Chinese perspective.
There is no brand loyalty. They pay zero for advertisement, or less. And they feel they should be paid for what they did, even if it is not what is expected (then negotiation happens)

-----

Next, the doll manufacturers have no control over shipping and import.
One doll can sail smoothly through, the next gets cut open and held for (insert excuse here) reasons.

The laws for doll import are ridiculous and not very specific.

So, the only way to be seen as dependable on The US side is to import and warehouse dolls in The US.
There is literally nothing the manufacturer can do to affect the shipping.

- - - -- - -

So Mr. Sandro

What would you say to people who would want to start doll manufacturing in The US, Germany or the UK?

Make the best thing you can for $1000? No matter what it is, or how many corners have to be cut?

Make the high end doll and charge what its worth? With enough profit margin to make a complete other doll to appease any unhappy customers?

Not sure if anything in the middle can be made.
Basically, you end up with a one person operation, anything more and you can't afford the labour.

What are your thoughts?

[Ztar073]

kinda surprised to hear some of these dolls aren't selling. I assumed doll sales were up substantially and dolls are looking better than ever.

[Dollfriend]

Yes it is strange that right now ther are more High end silicone Dolls being offered up in the Far East than anytime ever before, and yes the Sex doll world has been a booming world for some time, so it was just a matter of time before it came to this, it's just a pity it has to come at a time of world wide anxt. I read somewhere that high end car sales have not been affected by the world situation, maby they are banking that high end Doll sales will be the same.

[Dollstudio]

Next, the doll manufacturers have no control over shipping and import.

Umm… actually quite the opposite is the case, at least for doll makers in mainland China. Actually it's an old story, for some background please take a look at this open letter from 2016.

Back then, the last Chinese doll maker had just lost their export permit (btw. it was Doll Sweet standing tall for the longest time). Since then, every single doll with a non trivial price runs through shipping agents. There is not a single one of our suppliers left who could export a doll himself. Doll makers choose the shipping agent and the tariff to use, and they decide upon things like undervaluing shipments or declaring bogus HS codes which has caused so much trouble with customs in the past.

The whole shipping crap we have to deal with right now - excessive price increases, slow transit times, Fedex temporarily suspending to ship sex dolls (probably not Fedex, but actually some major shipping agents with volume deals that were terminated) and so on - is the result of giving away all control over shipping to shipping agents. Using shipping agents is more convenient for the doll makers because it's less paperwork for them. The shipping agent deals with the export. But more cenvenient also means that nobody might be there if problems arise.

If Chinese doll makers still could export properly, we vendors could use our own accounts with shipping carriers. We have lower freight costs, faster turnaround times, and less restrictions than the HK shipping agents. Plus, we would get proper tracking codes and the regular insurance for air cargo.

What would you say to people who would want to start doll manufacturing in The US, Germany or the UK?

As you said yourself, it probably would not work against price competition from China. Only in small niches, like Textile Doll.

However, if Chinese doll makers go on like they were in the past months - unresponsive to questions, no answer in case of configuration mistakes, reducing service levels and so on - the whole focusing on nothing but price will go kaboom at some point. I hear this every day when talking with potential customers. Customers want reliability, commitment and obligingness. Not empty promises, excuses and vagueness.

Just consider this: At the moment, almost all dolls cost more for shipping than for the product itself. Before the pandemic, this was an exception for suboptimally sized packages like the EX-lite. Now it's normal. My guess is: The more international transit costs climb up and the longer transit times take, the more attractive some kind of local manufacturing will become.

If both developments – increasingly unattractive shipping conditions and reduction of service – continue, at some point it will start to make economically sense to set up a doll making workshop outside of China (by the way, for some other reasons this is already true for the UK as their UK Border Force restrictions only affect imports, not what is being manufactured within the UK).

I'd be curious how other vendors see the situation. Maybe elsewhere high-end dolls sell well?

Sandro

[Robert Lloyd]

These doll manufacturers must be targeting consumers insensitive to economic price elasticity. High end consumers don't really care about the doll's price and their buying habits aren't impacted by economic downturns. The question I must ask is does this forum contain a significant number of high end consumers insensitive to price elasticity?

[BuilderOfCastles]

I see a lot more shipping disruptions in the future. (civil war, storms, money collapses, Wuhan-flu Mk2...)

Knowing that, what would you do to take advantage of this?

- - - -

However, that is not a good strategy. A dolll manufacturer (in the making) should have a goal of fulfilling a market, or bringing the best doll at the best price to that market. (of course, this can be seen as a fools errand, when competing with China)

Anyway, some of my ideas are interesting.

Get a big truck to drive around The US. (of course i am The US centric, no papers needed to cross boarders, which makes a world of difference)

In the trailer is a showroom, with the doll models you have molds for.
So, you drive to the buyer's house, they get to see and feel the dolls, select exactly what they want.
Then you go park somewhere and put the molds together and cast a doll.
Several days later you deliver. (so much curing time and detail time... really wish it was shorter for this business idea)

- - -

Another idea is to make molds with a CNC machine.
And sell the molds (or lease) them to doll loving, small-manufacturers in various countries through some kind of franchise license.

Or maybe sell doll molds to anyone, and become the manufacturer of doll skeleton parts. (much easier to ship internationally)

Still, making a doll is an art. Getting the mold right, the skeleton placed correctly, the finish work, the detail work. So many ways to fail. So, finding people who want to make dolls and are capable of making dolls is not easy, especially when any assistance would have to be over the internets.

Do you have any ideas along these lines?

[PDutus]

Qui pisse contre le vent, se rince les dents

I have been contemplating getting a high-end doll like a Gynoid or a Summit and have also been looking at XYcolo and the new Top-Sino.

What has been putting me off are the reports of issues and problems and, in some cases, the cavalier, couldn't give a toss attitude of manufacturers. It is one thing having to deal with these on a $1,000 - $2,000 doll, but quite another on a $4,000 plus doll.

I would only buy an expensive doll if (1) I could be certain of the quality and (2) I would want to be sure of good customer service after the purchase.

My latest doll arrived in June. After some time, I noticed a problem with the TPE. I contacted the manufacturer. Without any quibbling, a replacement doll was offered. She is on the way...