WM- Full Skeletal Overhaul (Hopefully)

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:53 am

First an introduction: The Nut behind the wheel

There are many threads on the forum that deal in tightening individual joints, and treads on skeletons as a whole, but I`ve never seen one that goes though the entire skeleton joint by joint with the aim of tightening them up and hopefully future proofing them ... so here we are.

By no means do I consider myself an expert, having only been a doll owner for a little over a year. In that time I`ve done the usual, minor TPE repairs and a hand replacement, and although my job title has the word `engineer` in it, it`s electronics. Capacitors, transistors, RS232 chips, etc. Although my job does at times require me to be mechanic, fabricator, carpenter, electrician, and doing an installation on a site you`ve never been to before with the paying customer watching over, quick thinking may also be called upon.........` Sorry, what?...You want me to screw this piece of equipment onto a glass shelf?.....?????......????????????????????????`

So jack of all trades an master on none, but if I do appear to be teaching you how to suck eggs at times, then I apologise now. I want to pitch this thread to lurkers and newbies as well as the seasoned veteran.
As this thread is concentrating on the skeleton I don`t intend in going into too much detail on TPE repair or TPE paste, (Plenty of threads already out there) and if you feel I need correcting or advising along the way, feel free. No offence will be taken, This old dog isn`t too old to learn new tricks. At times I may even be asking for your thoughts and advise.

I have read several times that a floppy doll is great when it comes to bedroom playtime, but it`s a nightmare when it comes to posing for photo shoots, and my girls are very much more muses than lovers. If you`ve never met my girls there`s a link to our thread in my signature. Drop by the shack shack sometime and see the shenanigans.
No, at 37.8kg/ 83lbs, she`s no lightweight and with my skinny build, there`s no `throwing her about the bedroom` anyway. When we do get physical it`s one position start to finish, floppy legs swinging around uncontrollably? .....someone`s gonna get hurt.

Last thing about me. K.I.S.S (Keep It Simple Stupid). He says as he`s about to remove, work on, then refit pretty much the entire skeleton.
Success story? for anyone even with limited D.I.Y skills to follow. OR cautionary tail! AVOID! AVOID! AVOID!....lets find out together...shall we.

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:27 am

The Patient:

VeeRonnie(ca) is my first full size doll a sheared WM 164D, ordered November 2020 arriving March 2021, so a little over a year old. The usual standing feet, double hinged knees and elbows and shrugging shoulders. No heating or breathing systems to worry about.

Theoretically she should have a skeleton like this:

: fLPzIb-2019Skeleton01.jpg (223.25 KiB) Viewed 2857 times

Having already replaced her hands I should be expecting hand plates like this:

: New WM Hand Plate and Wrist Joint 2.png (306.39 KiB) Viewed 2857 times

What I actually found were these...

: 20210606_163311.jpg (343.46 KiB) Viewed 2857 times

All five finger wires coming out of the end of the hand plate, which I believe are the old, old style hands, so who Knows what delights await.

I first noticed one of her hips getting loose in August 2021, and boy when they start to go they deteriorate quickly.
A quick run down of the worst offenders:
Neck well on the way to floppy forward and back,
One shoulder floppy Forward and back, other shoulder floppy up out and over,
One elbow floppy, other well on the way,
Both hips floppy forward and back,
One Knee floppy, other well on the way,
Both ankles floppy.

I can still just about work with the top half but standing poses are challenging in the extreme.
So legs first, here comes the shock and gore.

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 7:53 am

Before starting its`s worth mentioning that the flesh of her thighs and calves had separated from the skeleton quite some time ago, the knee was questionable. Her arms also appear to be going the same way. (In fact the calves of my second doll, which arrived in December, have already begun to do the same). It`s this that led me to take ..... a radical approach?

Had much deliberation with myself on where to make the incision to get to the hip joint. After a lot of experimentation in the required TPE repair on an unknown brand torso doll ( no longer with us ), I decided to go in through the vagina. Had a hunt around for a speculum or similar device. Most have too much going on on the outside that it gets in the way, but did stumble across this on eBay:

: 01-horz.jpg (818.93 KiB) Viewed 2846 times

I think it was listed as an Extreme anal spreader/dilator. Judging by it`s construction it`s not a medical device and as for the `extreme` .....

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Why any rational human being would want to have this used on them is beyond me...Sorry VeeRonnie(ca), and for the following undignifying pictures.
As needs must, removing one of the limbs of the torture device....

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Due to the nature of TPE she just wanted to push it back out. Every time it was nudged it worked itself a little further out, but it did stay in long enough to make the incision with 2 free hands, so not a complete waste of money.
Also, with the extreme positioning of her legs I didn`t want to leave her so stretched out for long periods of time, so limited myself to 20 mins at a time with an at least overnight `TPE rest period` between sessions. Used the remainder of the session to make a start on separating the TPE from the cloth wrapping. Soon discovered the wrapping ended just above the joint.

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At the end of the allotted 20 mins closed her legs and moved on to her foot.
Snip.....peel....

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Just keep peeling, just keep peeling....C`mon Dory, sing it with me now...

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Man, does that make your arm ache. The toe wire had snapped at the end of the foot plate, leaving the wire in place for now, and notice the wrapping end above the ankle. This would explain the thighs and calves and I`m guessing the knee is still well and truly attached. YEAY!! Time for bed.

Second spread eagle session, continued to work the TPE from the bandage around the hip. Got about 3/4 done but stopped with a couple of mins spare and cut open the end of the bandage.
GROOVY! The nut is welded to the bolt!...but at least I`ve got all night to think about it.

Session 3.Under the heading ` There`s no point going any further if I can`t get this nut off`, opened up the bandage fully, clamped a pair of mole grips onto the nut, which did a good job of holding everything open, leaving me hands free to get in with a Dremel fitted with a carving/ etching type bit and ground away. Got it to the point where I thought I could brute force it.

: 06-horz.jpg (624.96 KiB) Viewed 2846 times

Next day: Need the leg in the standing (closed) position for leverage, but partially opened the other leg for access, fitted a 19mm socket and broke the rest of the weld and then left the nut as it was.

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Under the heading ` There`s no point continuing till the knee is free and I really dont`t want to make another incision if I can possibly help it` made a bowl of very soapy water ( the same dish soap I use for her regular cleaning). Wet yer hand and slide it in.

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Not gonna lie folks, That`s hard work. The TPE is trying to crush your hand and fold it round the `bone` of the leg. Not comfortable. Resisting that and trying to separate the TPE, It`s only a couple of mins before your hand and forearm are burning. Short stints and long rest breaks are the way to go. Took about an hour to free it all up. There`s nothing sharp in there , but a little rough in places. Being right handed the top, bottom and right side are.... well not easy, but nothing compared to the left had side, major discomfort. So flip her over onto her front and go at it again. (Who`s that sniggering at the back?!) Of course now the knee, being floppy, it just wants to bend, for the added peril, but eventually, job`s a good `un.

As she`s not been legs akimbo yet today lets press on. With the legs still arranged for leverage and putting her back on her back, wind of the nut, not as easy as you think with the remains of the weld and partially mangled thread, and remove the two washers. At this point the outer hip joint is still at 90 degrees, not what we want, so open her leg to straighten it out, and make sure the leg is fully supported and separate the leg from the hip. Two more washers to recover from the bolt, then grab the foot plate and gently pull....and gently pull?...???....Shigowa? Why is`nt it coming out?....soapy water...It`s not attached to anyyyy...Doh! The rest of the TPE around the hip! As it happens this this worked in my favour, manoeuvring the leg and rotating, you can bring the TPE to your hand rater than reaching round in awkward positions. Beware, there`s a hip bone in there somewhere, just waiting to pounce, and I`m sure with the soapy water it took longer than expected, But eventually....Take two...grab the foot plate and gently pull....aaaannd....SHLoop!

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Time for a coffee break, Oh, wait, while she`s still all wet slippery...( JOHNNY RAMSBOTTOM!....DETENTION!!!)....Pass a piece of string through the leg, two to three times the length of the leg. Did plan on attaching this to the hip joint and have the leg pull it though, oops, forgot. The string is not for pulling the leg back though. So how am I going to reinsert the leg? Don`t know till I try, but from the shape of it and therefore the shape of the channel in the leg, pretty sure It will be a lot easier with the foot removed and pushed in ankle first, from the hip.
OK. Coffee time.

Final task of the day, cleaning.
Dry off the crotch area and love canal entrance with kitchen roll, then a thorough oil clean of the area to remove all the greasy gunk and any greasy fingerprints I had transferred onto her leg. Move her trough to the bathroom for a good clean inside and out with soapy water. Just used my hand for the internals and removing the shower head for rinsing out. A quick pat down of the externals with a dry towel before moving her though to the bedroom to tackle the internals.

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A small (10mm ish) socket wrapped into the corner of a microfibre cloth then tied in place with the string.

: 10 (3)-horz.jpg (621.45 KiB) Viewed 2846 times

Guided in through the vagina and into the hip cavity and gently pull it through the leg to soak up the worst of the wetness. Of course the string would have to go and snap but managed get my hand in through the foot and drag it the rest of the way. Then over to the aquarium pump to finish the job, repositioning the hoses every hour or so. The most effective arrangement I discovered was to turn the foot inside out ( let it air dry) and insert the air lines into the ankle and rest the other foot on top of the ankle to pinch this end closed. Then a length of pipe ( I used 22mm copper pipe about 10cm long) to hold the wound and the labia open. The last part to dry was the upper corners around the hip bone, point the air lines in that direction and all done. Don`t forget the rest of the vagina and the anus.

While waiting for her to dry spent the evening having a good examination of all the leg joints, lets just say I`ve had to rethink my plan of attack.
All this typing is now making my eyes hurt so I`ll be back soon with a run down of all the joints.
( RAMSBOTTOM!...PUT MEYEPRICK DOWN!!)

4891d · Post by **4891d** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 9:56 am

Wow! It's like a medical thriller!
Exciting to read but I'd rather not experience the story for real!

Please, Mr. Manufacturers, invent skeletons with joints that are easy to tighten with mini incisions and simple Allen keys.

Enchanted · Post by **Enchanted** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 12:05 pm

Can this be turned off... I mean I try to get Esmee to the surgeon

Nah, without jokes, I hope everything will go fine!

Pabugs · Post by **Pabugs** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:21 pm

Subscribed and following with anticipation -

I had started a thread for this purpose as a novice getting ready to adjust and tension my 157B (and now my 166C) - This was put off due to time constraints - BUT that being said, I will need to tackle it at some time in the near future - viewtopic.php?t=149717

I too have full separation of fingers assembly from the hand plate (full floppy), as well as the other hand 3 of 5 fingers dislocated - There is also a fully loose thigh AND elbow that just drop and flop w/o any tension, and then some joints so tight, I can't move them at all anymore - This all happened within 3 months of getting her -

I am also having missing TPE closure seals in the top of the vaginal canal in BOTH my 166Cs - The jury still seems to be out on a consensus as to the TPE plug/no plug analysis - viewtopic.php?t=152538

The "Extreme Anal Spreader BDSM Anus Vaginal Dilator Huge Butt Plug Device" is sold out on Amazon (somebody's NOT having fun somewhere apparently

), but I found one on ebay - it's in transit as of now - This will be key to sealing both my girls up w/o having to guess or "feel" my way to the repair location internally, which so far has been frustrating to be sure.

But I can see that for the hip work I need to do on my 157B, this will come in handy too - Twofer - nice -

Keep up the good work Shigowa68!!

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:51 pm

Pabugs wrote: ↑Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:21 pm Subscribed and following with anticipation -

I had started a thread for this purpose as a novice getting ready to adjust and tension my 157B (and now my 166C) - This was put off due to time constraints - BUT that being said, I will need to tackle it at some time in the near future - viewtopic.php?t=149717

I too have full separation of fingers assembly from the hand plate (full floppy), as well as the other hand 3 of 5 fingers dislocated - There is also a fully loose thigh AND elbow that just drop and flop w/o any tension, and then some joints so tight, I can't move them at all anymore - This all happened within 3 months of getting her -

I am also having missing TPE closure seals in the top of the vaginal canal in BOTH my 166Cs - The jury still seems to be out on a consensus as to the TPE plug/no plug analysis - viewtopic.php?t=152538

The "Extreme Anal Spreader BDSM Anus Vaginal Dilator Huge Butt Plug Device" is sold out on Amazon (somebody's NOT having fun somewhere apparently ), but I found one on ebay - it's in transit as of now - This will be key to sealing both my girls up w/o having to guess or "feel" my way to the repair location internally, which so far has been frustrating to be sure.

But I can see that for the hip work I need to do on my 157B, this will come in handy too - Twofer - nice -

Keep up the good work Shigowa68!!

Thanks Pabugs. Was looking at your repair thread quite recently, as well as many, many others. I will doing a non-expert analysis on some of the alternative joint mechanisms I`ve seen floating around in a later post.

Wasn`t looking that far down her love hole to notice, but i do remember having a good look when I first heard about the TPE plug. She seemed to be completely sealed up there. Of course by that time she had been showered several times and back then a soaked up fist and the shower hose was my method. So far no signs of any corrosion. Thinking about it, I`ve not actually checked my other doll, going on the to do list now.

As I mentioned, the torture device does keep wanting to be pushed out, some form of anti slip coating is needed. Cloth based medical tape perhaps? rubber tubing? Something.

seagull · Post by **seagull** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:20 pm

TPE n rubber don't have a good history

Surgical rubber maybe otherwise cloth tape

Nevaeh1 · Post by **Nevaeh1** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:39 pm

I’ve tightened both elbows, both wrists, both knees and both ankles on my wm 170m cup. I’ve had her for maybe 2-3 years now maybe. I’ve yet to do the hip or waist yet.

Nevaeh1 · Post by **Nevaeh1** » Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:40 pm

But believe me tightening up the knees really helped she just used to buckle on me in the standing position

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:56 pm

Ok, lets take stock:
Firstly, no sign of any corrosion

Second, what may be a floppy joint when in the doll, has a surprising amount of resistance to movement when it`s just the frame. Something to bear in mind when it comes to reassembly.
Sorry to say this is a lot more than a case of just nipping up a few nuts. Fortunately this is something I had suspected for a long time and planned for in anticipation. But some of these joints may require Plan B ( permits already granted), or Plan C (subject to further investigation). Plan D?...Kinda screwed!

SO, from the top.

Inner hip joint/leg forward and back:
M12x35mm bolt (12mm shaft/35mm shaft length/19mm head). Passes through the eye in the hip, 2 M12 washers either side and all secured with an M12 (19mm) nut. As we have seen the nut is welded to the bolt and faces inwards. The head of the bolt is also spot welded in two places to the clevis ( U shaped piece of metal ) that forms part of the inner hip joint.
So far this is the only joint I have taken apart, but everything appears to be standard sizes and stainless steel, apart from the washers, size is near enough standard and made of steel but black in colour. This MAY suggest high tensile, but I`m dubious, they just don`t look right to me. More about washers in the next post.

: 11 (3).jpg (636.83 KiB) Viewed 2636 times

Outer hip joint/leg open and close:
M12x35 bolt, head welded to the clevis. 2 M12 washers either side of the eye. M12 nut, facing the front of the body and welded to the bolt.

: 11 (1)-horz.jpg (537.89 KiB) Viewed 2636 times

Knee twist:
M12 cap head bolt (8mm Allen key) of unknown length as it disappears into the thigh tube and welded to the clevis. 2 19mm nuts, maybe locking, maybe not. also 2 thin presumably M12 washers, appear to be brass, one between the 2 nuts, one between the lower nut and clevis.

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Operation. On the first inspection everything rotated, suggesting the two nuts are locked. But when it came to taking pictures only the clevis, and therefore the bolt
moved. This, plus the washer between the nuts, suggests not locked.

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While taking the photos I did try rotating clock wise 180 degrees and it did appear to tighten up. Gingerly rotated a further 90 degrees , enough for most poses, without catastrophe, so maybe that all this joint needs, rotating the outer hip joint through 180 brings the knee back to the front, but I am going to phone a friend.

Open question to the community, definitive answers only please:
Does anyone know if the 2 nuts are supposed to be locking or not?
And does anyone know what arrangement of things inside the tube?
If I start tinkering will whatever is inside the tube fall off and be lost forever? PLAN F!

The knee:
M10x25 bolt, 1 washer either side of the eye, and a 17mm nut facing the outside of the leg. Also a bump stop welded across the front of the clevis. Weld extend to the bolt head, but not to the nut, which is welded to the bolt. All x 2

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Operation:
The lower joint (floppy) moves first. The upper joint (pretty much factory fresh) dosn`t move until the two clevis`s meet. It then takes up the rest of the movement, moving to about 45 degrees. That`s with no blubber in the way, in normal circumstances it`s not going to move that far. When straightening the leg, again, the lower joint moves first, all the way to the bump stop.

: 18 (3)-horz.jpg (699.14 KiB) Viewed 2636 times

Almost curtain this is normal. You can feel it happening on a new doll with all tight joints. Although, it could be random as to which moves first, based on how much friction is in the joint, but one is doing all the heavy lifting while the other sits on it`s arse reading Playboy.

Ankle twist:

From the clevis, working up.
M8 cap head bolt (6mm Allen key). Length :haha4:

Not welded to the clevis and no washer inside the clevis.
After the clevis a thin brass washer, a thick black washer, another thin brass washer and a 13mm nut welded to the bolt. A long stretch of bare thread followed by 2 17mm locking nuts.....?....wait....what?.....a 13mm nut AND a 17mm on the same bolt???....Let`s have a close look at that, shall we....

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An M10 threaded bar with an M8 bolt butt welded on the end....speechless

Whats the thinking there WM? Don`t get me wrong, it`s a good solid weld, no signs of any cracking and the doll is stored standing up, but as it is, there`s no way to re tighten the joint. And, has that black washer split?, or is it a spring washer?
Place yer bets now folks.

Some wider angle pics of the hole assembly:

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Operation:
The only thing that moves is the clevis

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Foot joint:
M6x20 button head bolt ( 4mm Allen key ), one thin washer either side of the eye ( cant tell the material ), 10mm nut. Another bump stop welded across the front of the clevis, weld extended to the bolt head but not the nut, facing the outside of the leg, nut not welded to anything.

: 20 (1)-horz.jpg (447.07 KiB) Viewed 2636 times

Foot plate:
A curved piece of steel, threaded holes for the standing bolts, and a short metal tube welded into a notch for the toe wire, which is crimped into place.

Some thoughts:

Over all for a relatively mass produced item designed to be never seen, really not bad.
A couple of ....odd design choices. Why two different mechanisms to achieve the same movement? ( The twists).
Having had a few days to think about it and come up with solutions a curtain logic has appeared though the haze, Well maybe apart from that butt weld in the ankle, It`s not as if you can`t get M10 cap head bolts long enough to do the job.
The BIGGEST flaw is the washers. With all those welds the loosening of the joints has nothing to do with the nuts working loose. So it must be caused by wear. Not enough washers, incorrect orientation, no spring or star washers, possibly wrong material, all combining to allow the friction to happen wherever the friction wants to happen and not where it should happen.
Yes you could nip up the nuts with a bit of thread lock, but the wear will just start all over again.

I also get the strange feeling in my gut that the nuts of the knee and foot of the other leg are all facing the inside if the leg.....????

Going forward:
As already stated, I`ll be rambling on about washers and some alternatives in the next post.
Even if this turns out to be a complete failure, I do still have to put the f***ing thing back in her body, I would hope this stands as a definitive guide to the construction of the leg joints of a circa 2020/21 WM skeleton.
Also as already stated I want it open to , hopefully, everyone, of all skill levels. Plus someone may be reading this looking for info on one particular joint, still inside their doll, so NO welding or brazing.

The ankle clevis does need widening so may need to break at least one of these welds. Would one weld hold the entire weight of the doll? I believe ( please correct me if I`m wrong) the entire foot/ankle assembly can be easily separated from the rest of the skeleton so heat is less of an issue, but I can think of two other ways of creating a bump stop with no welding. Need to make some more measurements and scour t`interweb, but a pretty clear plan of action is forming for that particular headache.

Already have some of the hardware, some on order, some I can`t order till I start tearing things down to get accurate measurements. Going to start of with the hip assembly and lower knee.
Leave it with me.

Pabugs · Post by **Pabugs** » Fri Apr 08, 2022 8:26 pm

Wow

Shigowa, watching this is actually getting me excited to work on mine now - Carry on sir, l’m glued to this!!

RevJack · Post by **RevJack** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 11:49 am

You sir, are a gentleman and a scholar. We are all in your debt for being so meticulous and thorough. Start a gofundme page for your McMaster-car expenses and I will gladly support your habit.

whiterose · Post by **whiterose** » Sat Apr 09, 2022 1:30 pm

Thanks so much for this. Christen and VeeRonnie arrived at pretty much the same time, but Christen has not been as vigorously "worked" (ahem) as Vee and Ronnie and her joints are still fairly tight. It's inspiring to see you take on something so daunting after only a year of doll companionship.

I'm hoping like hell I'll never need the knowledge gained in this thread ... but should that day ever come, I'll be damned grateful to you for blazing the way. Looking forward to the day when these beautiful women will rise from the ashes.