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What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Dolly Dearest »

I just want to say that even though what kruiser says may sound harsh, it is in fact all true. These are some of the many reasons why so many of us have chosen dolls over women. I for one am not turning back to women. They are simply not worth the effort. :?
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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Stewie studmuffin »

Same here. I haven't been with an organic woman since 2011 and don't plan to ever be with one again.
I have been saying that there are reasons for the growing popularity of dolls and Kruiser summed up those reasons quite nicely. :thumbs_up:
No matter how pretty she is, there is a guy out there somewhere who is tired of her shit!

Girlfriends are for guys who haven't found the right doll yet.

I feel much better now that I've given up hope.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by DollDaddy27 »

I think people are just closed minded and afraid of anything that doesnt fit their molded minds. Its hysterical and hypocritical that people will chuckle at a woman that owns a vibrator or dildo but the same people will smirk at a man that owns a sex doll. Fact of the matter is... The doll is closer to a real human than the vibrator. And btw.. women buy sex dolls too. Maybe not as many as men, but they do. Im of the mindset to " live and let live". As long as we dont involve children or expose unnecessary sexual content in public..... There shouldnt be a problem. But the people that look down on doll owners are the very ones who are looking at porn on a daily basis and claiming in public that its disgusting. They are the real losers because they are lying hypocrites.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Stewie studmuffin »

What gets me is that even women who have vibrators and dildos will make negative comments about guys who have dolls. :roll:
Some of these women have stated that THEIR toys are different because they don't represent a whole person. While that may be true, why attack us for it? Why is a "toy" that represents a whole person worse than one that represents only a part of a person? :?
Are these women saying that they prefer vibrators and dildos because men are so reprehensible that the only good part of a man is his dick? :whistle:
Based on that logic, women who have vibrators and dildos are the ones who hate the opposite sex. NOT doll lovers who so cherish the opposite sex that we want to represent them in their entirety.
I will freely admit that I chose dolls over real women based on past heartbreak and general bad experiences.
But I don't hate real women. If I did, then how could I love a synthetic one? I mean, the last time I checked, she looked like a woman. :wink:
No matter how pretty she is, there is a guy out there somewhere who is tired of her shit!

Girlfriends are for guys who haven't found the right doll yet.

I feel much better now that I've given up hope.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Obin »

For folks on twitter, I recommend this account: https://twitter.com/FutureofSex/status/ ... 3735040001

There are quite a number of tweets and articles posted or retweeted that address issues which are at least parallel to the taboo about dolls. The account is fun to explore. Several articles address taboos and what measures might help remove the notions.

Dolls are essentially the precursor of robots. I think that connects us to this chart.
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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by jerryr708 »

Stewie studmuffin wrote:What gets me is that even women who have vibrators and dildos will make negative comments about guys who have dolls. :roll:
Some of these women have stated that THEIR toys are different because they don't represent a whole person. While that may be true, why attack us for it? Why is a "toy" that represents a whole person worse than one that represents only a part of a person? :?
Are these women saying that they prefer vibrators and dildos because men are so reprehensible that the only good part of a man is his dick? :whistle:
Based on that logic, women who have vibrators and dildos are the ones who hate the opposite sex. NOT doll lovers who so cherish the opposite sex that we want to represent them in their entirety.
I will freely admit that I chose dolls over real women based on past heartbreak and general bad experiences.
But I don't hate real women. If I did, then how could I love a synthetic one? I mean, the last time I checked, she looked like a woman. :wink:
Men are more visually turned on whereas women are more feeling and imaginative. Women are better looking than men even though they are fake from head to toe. If I am going to be with a lady with hair extensions, wigs, painted on eyebrows, fake eyelashes, botox, breast implants, butt implants etc, might as well be with the real thing...a REAL DOLL. Men are not much to look at in the beauty department, is why they rely on imagination with their dildo. I'm sure they will imagine their dildo wearing an Armani suit with a fat wallet and the sound of the dildo vibration being his Bentley engine idling while making out in the back seat.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by LJ69 »

I have really enjoyed most of my 'real-life' relationships but yes they definitely do have their problems and risks. I left the woman that I loved (but the sex was very infrequent) to try to improve my life, got the next woman pregnant and (unfortunately) she decided to keep the child and now I am stuck paying child support for a bastard child that I desperately did not want and have lost the woman that I really loved. I have such an incredibly high level of anger and bitterness towards the woman who decided to keep the child as now I am severely restricted financially which is a cause of extreme anxiety and frustration.

I have been fortunate to have been with about 60-70 real life women in my time so I definitely do not fit into the 'loser/socially awkward' category that many of us doll lovers are labelled with. I am in my mid 40s and even though I am aging I still get enough positive vibes from the ladies that I probably could form another successful long term relationship but can I really be bothered going through everything again?

So for as much as I love the idea of a long term happy relationship with a real-life woman, the pain is just too great and dolls provide some (not all) of the benefits of a happy relationship. Whilst you cannot have a proper conversation or dinner date with them, they do provide some level of comfort, companionship and (of course) sexual relief.

It does feel somewhat strange and surreal that I now think of my tpe ladies as my girlfriends and do admit to forming some degree of connection to them but to me they really only provide a fraction of what you get from a relationship with a real-life person. Mind you the fun and fantasy you can achieve with your TPE girl (in most cases) greatly outweighs anything you can get in real life so they do have their advantages.

For the guys out there that are socially awkward of have some reason why the are unable to form a lasting real-life relationship, these dolls are a true God-Send. We all need some level of love, companionship and connection so for those that can not (or choose not) to be with human lady can still have a loving and immersive relationship with their TPE/Silicone companion.

Anyway, I am certainly thankful for TDF and the friends/associates that I have made on this forum. TDF shows us that it is 'OK' to have a doll as a companion. We are not all crazy sex perverts and freaks. Most of us are just regular guys (and girls) that (for whatever reason) choose to have synthetic companion.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by JustOnePot »

Obin wrote:Dolls are essentially the precursor of robots.
Yes, they are sort of like what the abacus is, compared to the home pc computer.

Great picture chart Obin, I think it would make a good desktop wallpaper. :)

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by itvman »

IslandDog wrote: I'm asking because I want to clarify my target goal for the film - sort of my thesis statement. If I better understand the problem, I can create a better film to help address that problem. I want to be clear I'm not here to profit from this or make a giant media explosion - it's just a small step for a small filmmaker that I hope will help an often looked down upon community.
Your goal should be to lose the term "sex doll". It unfairly lumps all dolls owners into the category of sexual users, which translates for most people as "perverts". Not everyone wants a doll for sex. 99% of the time I just look at my doll. I like brushing her hair, I like dressing her and buying stuff for her, I like watching tv with her, and I like coming home to an empty house and finding her there. She feels nice to cuddle and sometimes I even talk to her. Despite all that though, I am completely sane. I am just an eccentric man with an unusual passtime, not some sort of monster.

A doll is just a doll. The fact that it has genitalia doesn't mean it is a sex doll, it just means it is an adult doll. Kid's dolls don't have genitals for obvious reasons, but why shouldn't an adult doll have them? There is no reason why they shouldn't be there.

Think of the first computers and how they were used for nothing more than number crunching. Then people started to find out that they could be used for other purposes too like graphic arts and music and anything else they put their mind to. Dolls are kind of the same. They started as purely as sex objects, but now all manner of people are finding out that they make great photographic models or can ease loneliness. As they become more sophisticated they may incorporate artificial intelligence and one day become true companions for millions of lonely people. For whatever reasons many people find this terribly upsetting.

So I think there are two negative attitudes at play here: the first is disgust at people having sex with something other than a human; and the second is a generalised fear of mannequins/robots/dolls which you see manifested in movies like The Stepford Wives (the original, not the comedy remake) and the Chucky series. Fear of dolls is almost as common as fear of clowns.

If you really want to make a thought provoking film, just show dolls for what they are: beautiful objects. Then show the different things they can be used for and let the viewer decide for themself. Stay away from the "pervy old men with dolls" theme and the "dolls are scary and creepy" theme. Promote the idea of inclusion and tolerance. It stuns me that people who wouldn't be caught dead offending a gay or black person are happy to heap their bigotry on safe options like doll owners. They need to take a look at themselves in the mirror and examine their own principles.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Mr_Rabbit »

Whenever organized society, government, or religion disapproves of something you have to ask yourself one question. What or whom does it threaten. What is the perceived threat? With dolls, there are many things that people feel threatened by.

Women.. I don't think I could say it any better than Kruiser did. Well put brother. Well put!

Government... Anything that has a potential to derail society norms is a threat to government, and a threat to government is a threat to political power. If men, aren't beat into the submission of going to work, getting married buying a house, having two and a half kids, etc, etc, most wouldn't do it. Therefore, a doll, threatens that expectation. Hence, dolls are bad.

Religion... Is all about control. Wholesale hope. Dolls threaten religion just as they threaten government.

Someone mentioned that even alternate lifestyle individuals can often look at doll owners as "creepy". I will assure you that just because someone is open minded about one kink, doesn't mean they are open minded about all kinks. (Dolls aren't a kink, just to be clear) For example, I use to be a swinger, I realized as I got older, that sex, without a mental connection left me feeling unsatisfied. I discovered that I wasn't alone when I discovered polyamory. When we told our swinging friends that we were no longer interested in random sex, and wanted to develop feeling for the people we slept with, we were shunned.

I think dolls have TONS of positive uses. To free men from being driven by sexual desire being the biggest. Empires have been lost in fights over pussy. For the shut in, or people who suffer from depression, or social anxiety. For the man who is divorced and has children he no longer needs to feel conflicted in dividing his time between his kids, and looking for a relationship that will meet his physical needs. For a high libido man, married to a low libido woman that is perfect in every other way. These are just a very few of the many different reasons that dolls are a wonderful thing.

I even believe that dolls could be a tool to help with pedophilia. An outlet for urges that the pedophile KNOWS are wrong. He doesn't want to ever hurt a child, but can't help his desires. This may be an outlet that allows him to live a semi normal, law abiding, life.

When you do your film, if you want to put a positive focus on it, start with the people in your story. They should be highly functioning, intelligent, successful, people. Let them, show you, and society, how their dolls are an enhancement, to an otherwise fantastic life. Show that they have both normal social lives, friends, family, careers, and even successful happy marriages. Show how their doll enhances that.

Lastly, leave the sex out of it. Don't be tempted to use the idea that "sex sells". If your doing a film on full sized dolls, it is already assumed by most people that they their owners are having sex with their dolls. You don't need to even mention it. What will make your film stand out from the rest is that you show everything BUT the sexual aspect of it.

Good luck.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by TripleA »

At this link is the best explanation of: Why do Grown Men and Women Play with Dolls that I know of!

http://missatleur.com/why.htm

It exquisitely states why humans now and have for hundreds of years been attracted to basically Dolls!

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by Mark Spencer »

Leaving aside the sex aspect for a moment (as many people do not have
dolls for that purpose)

In some ways, I don't see doll ownership that much differently than listening to
the radio or TV. How often does someone say "I'm not really watching/listening, I
just have it on for the noise" ? It gives one the feeling of having someone else
there; it fills in a silence and alleviates the feeling of being alone.

And while someone is more likely to 'assign' a personality to a doll, is that so much
different than someone who feels like they've come to know a radio personality or an
actor in a TV show? I doubt there are many people who haven't imagined how a
conversation might go, should they ever meet one of these celebrities. And while
these conversations don't represent the other person's real personality, does that
make it any less 'real' in the moment for the imaginer?

People often make substitutions for aspects of their lives that are absent, whether
it is thru circumstance, accident or deliberate, and we think nothing of this. I don't
find dolls to be that much different.. but which aspect you choose to focus on will
change the nature of your documentary.
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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by IslandDog »

Wow, again everyone - I'm floored by the responses. It's great to see the passion about the way dolls have been misrepresented in the media and I'm so glad to get so much great feedback. Again, I will try to respond to everyone, but in the meantime - keep the answers coming!
Kaori wrote:Ok firstly please define and draw distinctions between the hobby and lifestyle aspect of our interest in dolls.
Definitely! I think this needs to be a primary goal. As others have mentioned, there is way too much of a focus on the sex aspect and not the emotional bonds as you mentioned.
It's an interesting point as well - the size of the doll vs the perceived age. I've spoke to some members of the community who have 1/6th figurines, but I wonder what the most popular doll size/perceived age is!

Mark Spencer wrote:So while I don't find the stigma coming from one particular faith, I do find it coming
from people whose moral center is based on religion's accumulated and comprehensive
indoctrination over many centuries.
That definitely makes sense. I think we see a lot of that in modern times (perhaps too much).

@kruiser: wow, great answer! I do wonder if it is particularly the power women hold, or as you mentioned more of the power sex holds (as there are woman in the community etc). I do think you've hit on a really powerful phrase: "A sex doll is a tool of liberation for men."
It seems to be a common theme in the responses and research I've done that, as you said: dolls offer a better compromise that simply works for people, better than any woman (or human partner) ever could. I wonder, if you don't mind me asking - would anything make you go back to searching for that needle in the haystack? Please note I'm totally not saying you should - I definitely understand your points and in fact the whole purpose of the documentary is to prove that you don't need to search for that needle if you don't want to. But I am personally curious, and I wonder if you've given it any thought! Thanks again for the response.

@Dolly Dearest : I hear you! I think a lot of people would agree with you here. It's just a shame that there is so much negativity that the community doesn't feel safe enough to share that perspective :(

@Stewie studmuffin : Serious noob question here: is 'organic woman' the preferred term in the community? I want to make sure I have all the terminology straight! Aside from that, I hear you. I wonder at what point the growing popularity will hit 'the mainstream.' As in, people will be comfortable saying that they are in a relationship with a doll. I wonder whether it is a matter of people coming to terms with it, or dolls advancing enough?

@DollDaddy27 : Very true. But I do think dolls are different than dildos because dolls have other purposes than just sexual stimulation!

@ LJ69: I am truly sorry you had such poor experiences with those relationships, but I am happy you are in a better one now :). Serious question, but it is an extremely hard one, so feel free not to reply haha :p. You mentioned that your relationship with your tpe ladies has progressed to where they are your girlfriend(s), and I think that is awesome. Do you feel your relationship with them matches with the 'real-life' (and I use that term sparingly) relationships you had?

You know, answering my own question, I suppose that there are ways that it is better and ways that it is worse, but overall you've decided it's better? You tell me! I wonder if the relationship struggles because it must be kept hidden? (I am assuming you are not public with your doll lifestyle, as I assume most people are here!).

Anyways, it's great to hear how supportive this community has been. Thanks for the response!

@itvman: Great response! I love this so much because you really hit the nail on the head.
itvman wrote:If you really want to make a thought provoking film, just show dolls for what they are: beautiful objects. Then show the different things they can be used for and let the viewer decide for themself. Stay away from the "pervy old men with dolls" theme and the "dolls are scary and creepy" theme. Promote the idea of inclusion and tolerance. It stuns me that people who wouldn't be caught dead offending a gay or black person are happy to heap their bigotry on safe options like doll owners. They need to take a look at themselves in the mirror and examine their own principles.
Absolutely. I think a big part of the film will be depicting the beauty the doll has an object, and also the beauty the relationship has between the owner and the doll. Long term, I hope to find a doll owner who is comfortable being camera for an interview, and one of the benefits for them (beyond helping reduce the negative stigma against the community) will be cinema-quality video and photo of their doll as just that - a beautiful object. I am relatively in the beginning of my film career, but I do trust in my ability to make beautiful images with cinema-grade cameras, and I hope that I can show that the general public by showing depicting the beauty you mention.

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by IslandDog »

dogbytz wrote:Whenever organized society, government, or religion disapproves of something you have to ask yourself one question. What or whom does it threaten. What is the perceived threat? With dolls, there are many things that people feel threatened by.

Women.. I don't think I could say it any better than Kruiser did. Well put brother. Well put!

Government... Anything that has a potential to derail society norms is a threat to government, and a threat to government is a threat to political power. If men, aren't beat into the submission of going to work, getting married buying a house, having two and a half kids, etc, etc, most wouldn't do it. Therefore, a doll, threatens that expectation. Hence, dolls are bad.

Religion... Is all about control. Wholesale hope. Dolls threaten religion just as they threaten government.

Someone mentioned that even alternate lifestyle individuals can often look at doll owners as "creepy". I will assure you that just because someone is open minded about one kink, doesn't mean they are open minded about all kinks. (Dolls aren't a kink, just to be clear) For example, I use to be a swinger, I realized as I got older, that sex, without a mental connection left me feeling unsatisfied. I discovered that I wasn't alone when I discovered polyamory. When we told our swinging friends that we were no longer interested in random sex, and wanted to develop feeling for the people we slept with, we were shunned.

I think dolls have TONS of positive uses. To free men from being driven by sexual desire being the biggest. Empires have been lost in fights over pussy. For the shut in, or people who suffer from depression, or social anxiety. For the man who is divorced and has children he no longer needs to feel conflicted in dividing his time between his kids, and looking for a relationship that will meet his physical needs. For a high libido man, married to a low libido woman that is perfect in every other way. These are just a very few of the many different reasons that dolls are a wonderful thing.

I even believe that dolls could be a tool to help with pedophilia. An outlet for urges that the pedophile KNOWS are wrong. He doesn't want to ever hurt a child, but can't help his desires. This may be an outlet that allows him to live a semi normal, law abiding, life.

When you do your film, if you want to put a positive focus on it, start with the people in your story. They should be highly functioning, intelligent, successful, people. Let them, show you, and society, how their dolls are an enhancement, to an otherwise fantastic life. Show that they have both normal social lives, friends, family, careers, and even successful happy marriages. Show how their doll enhances that.

Lastly, leave the sex out of it. Don't be tempted to use the idea that "sex sells". If your doing a film on full sized dolls, it is already assumed by most people that they their owners are having sex with their dolls. You don't need to even mention it. What will make your film stand out from the rest is that you show everything BUT the sexual aspect of it.

Good luck.
So many great answers here, dogbytz! Thank you so much. I agree you with on so many points! Your list of positive uses of dolls is great - just what I need. I also think you make a great point about starting with the people - that is something I try to do in every story I tell, and it's great advice. My end goal for the film is definitely to show that people are just people, and their doll doesn't change that in the slightest. I will agree with you that I am not going to centre the film on the sex aspect of dolls - as you and others have mentioned, there are so many other positives that are possible. But I think it would be dishonest of me not to mention it. As you said yourself in the example of the high libido man, the sex aspect of a doll is a valid part of it and one of the positives. For many (most?) I don't believe it is the main appeal, but it definitely has its place as you mentioned yourself. I think the important thing is to frame it in a positive light, so that people can see how beneficial it can be.

I don't mean I want to literally show sex! But I do want (eventually) to find interview subjects who are comfortable speaking about the way it brings positives into their lives! Although again, as we both mentioned, it will not be the focus of the film.

Thanks again, I really appreciate it!

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Re: What do you think creates the taboo about dolls?

Post by kruiser »

@kruiser: wow, great answer! I do wonder if it is particularly the power women hold, or as you mentioned more of the power sex holds (as there are woman in the community etc). I do think you've hit on a really powerful phrase: "A sex doll is a tool of liberation for men."
It seems to be a common theme in the responses and research I've done that, as you said: dolls offer a better compromise that simply works for people, better than any woman (or human partner) ever could. I wonder, if you don't mind me asking - would anything make you go back to searching for that needle in the haystack? Please note I'm totally not saying you should - I definitely understand your points and in fact the whole purpose of the documentary is to prove that you don't need to search for that needle if you don't want to. But I am personally curious, and I wonder if you've given it any thought! Thanks again for the response.
There's always a nagging feeling in the back of my head to go and find a woman but I am a very logical person and I understand that this feeling is nothing more than a biological impulse which is sent to my brain by my dna which wants me to reproduce, I ignore it. Even if I wanted to go and search for that special unicorn woman it would be impossible for me because I am red pilled. I don't know if you know what blue pill and red pill means but it's a reference to the matrix and it's a very good example of how society works.

I will try and explain the best I can, humans without being controlled are nothing more than wild animals and that's how we started out, we had a 'system' created to govern over us and make rules and laws so we could prosper. Very basic in the age where we were swinging clubs at wild animals but then came along religion , something happened that no one could explain like fire was created and they thought some holy god made it happen so some smart ass decided to use this religion to control people and make commandments which further reduced people's freedom and handed more control to those in power.

In the current age people still believe in a giant man in the sky because it has never been proven to not be true but nether has it been proven to be real. So the governments still use religion to enforce rules and laws which are used in schools to indoctrinate children so it robs them of free will to think that they may be being lied to. So that's religion, then we have tv's , I call them indoctrination boxes and I haven't watched tv in years , these are proven to send out subliminal messages which again rob people of the ability to think for themselves , people spout words they have heard from the 'news' and believe it to be true.

Then social media, bill boards, papers, the adverts you see on your browsers and your phones , it is all designed to control us and people go through life without ever questioning there existence and we have the police who instill fear in people so they obey the ' law '. In my 20's I was nothing more than a sheep and I was happy believe it or not , I was filled with dreams and hope but life is not kind and all the things you see on tv turn out to be lies, women are not special and magical, quite the opposite. ' Whats wrong with me ' I said to myself many times, why can't I find a girl and be happy , I have spent over 10yrs of my life training to be the strongest I can be but this did nothing to attract women, turns out a lot of women are very shallow and they value money more than anything in the world.

I went on dates, speed dating and other things but always the same response, ' you're too nice'. I grew angry at the world , ' what's wrong with me I shouted' ...I get to my 30's which is when a man's lizard brain starts to cool down and I decide to research female nature and my mind is blown, everything that happened to me was happening to other men and everything I was told about women was complete and utter lies. I continue my research and finally come to the realization that it's not me that's wrong, it's everyone else. I come across mgtow and it explains why everything bad happening to me was happening, I watched hundreds of mgtow vids, I researched red pill web sites, I researched divorce forums and web sites about how governments control people , I checked gore web sites and watched people get cut up , beheaded and watch men blow there heads off with a shot gun over a woman. I spent 3 years cleansing my mind of the filthy indoctrination I have been force fed since birth and I am nothing like the person I once was.

My point is this, my eyes are wide open to how the world works and it's disgusting, I live my life surrounded by people who think like I used to when I was younger but the sad thing is they never wake up. Women are just a tool used by the governments to control the minds of men and the law backs them every step of the way. Would I ever have a long term relationship and get married? Not on your life, I have never been in love because I understand it is nothing more than a chemical reaction to force you to reproduce which allows me to see clearly, I am not blinded like a lot of people are. It makes me angry having to write all this but you need to understand something very important when you make that documentary , we doll owners are some of the sanest people you will ever meet and the bad things you have heard are lies so the taboo continues.

I'm not sure if I have gone too far with this response but I feel you need to understand my mindset so you can better understand why I turn to dolls and want nothing to do with most people.

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