Should be www.smooth-on.com
not "con".
Liquid latex as skin on a foamie?
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Wonko_the_sane
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Hi excentric!
Thanks for the link! I actually use the PUR from this company!
Since I'm using a silicone mold and I am making a cast out of PUR there is no release agent necessary.
I just thought of the possibility to make two skins. But that is more a future project. FAR into the future
I'm going to paint elastic PUR onto the silicone mold for making the skin. Afterwards I'll fill the interior with PUR foam.
I won't test a 2-skinned doll before I finished an ordinary one
But it sounds appealing:
1) Painting the elastic PUR skin onto the mold
2) let cure
3) Paint release agent onto the first PUR-layer
4) Paint a second layer of elastic PUR onto the first layer.
5) fill the interior with PUR foam.
BUT:
Elastic PUR is very much like rubber. So it would be REALLY difficult to make them slip on eachother. Or someone has a really good idea for a anti friction substance. (Graphite? Liquids the kind I think of are not suitable because they either are eaten by bacteria over the time or they are going into the PUR slowly but definitely.. (silicone oil, paraffine...))
So long,
Wonko
Thanks for the link! I actually use the PUR from this company!
Since I'm using a silicone mold and I am making a cast out of PUR there is no release agent necessary.
I just thought of the possibility to make two skins. But that is more a future project. FAR into the future
I'm going to paint elastic PUR onto the silicone mold for making the skin. Afterwards I'll fill the interior with PUR foam.
I won't test a 2-skinned doll before I finished an ordinary one
But it sounds appealing:
1) Painting the elastic PUR skin onto the mold
2) let cure
3) Paint release agent onto the first PUR-layer
4) Paint a second layer of elastic PUR onto the first layer.
5) fill the interior with PUR foam.
BUT:
Elastic PUR is very much like rubber. So it would be REALLY difficult to make them slip on eachother. Or someone has a really good idea for a anti friction substance. (Graphite? Liquids the kind I think of are not suitable because they either are eaten by bacteria over the time or they are going into the PUR slowly but definitely.. (silicone oil, paraffine...))
So long,
Wonko
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
Hey Wonko;
Just a thought since you are familiar with the elastic PUR.
Could not the reverse be done also? Like taking a foamie and painting on an elastic PUR skin and even further then add a release agent and a second skin if wanting to?
How soft is the elastic PUR?Will it cure with out heat? Can it be sprayed for an even smooth coat? Can it be tinted?
See I was thinking of possibly something that at least case would mimik a skin on foam (soft and durable) simular to a nerf football.
Just a thought since you are familiar with the elastic PUR.
Could not the reverse be done also? Like taking a foamie and painting on an elastic PUR skin and even further then add a release agent and a second skin if wanting to?
How soft is the elastic PUR?Will it cure with out heat? Can it be sprayed for an even smooth coat? Can it be tinted?
See I was thinking of possibly something that at least case would mimik a skin on foam (soft and durable) simular to a nerf football.
The Pandora dolls are listed as polyurathane foam. I use molding latex for repairs. Everything said so far seems applicable to them. Sounds fun.
Artificial Intelligence is the study of how to make real computers act like the ones in the movies -Anon
The questions you ask determine the discoveries you will make - db
The questions you ask determine the discoveries you will make - db
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Wonko_the_sane
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Hi!
I am using PMC 121/30 from "smooth-on.com", and I'm very satisfied with it so far.
I am still experimenting on how much "aerosil" (also smooth-on.com) I have to add to make it thicker. It takes about 30 minutes to cure, and it is originally very liquid. So it would simply flow away if you just pray it onto a surface.
Tinting it with pigments is also no problem. I used titandioxide (natural) which has a creme tone, siena bured (brown), and a little bit of red to achieve a skin tone. ( I will post the details on my webpage anyway, if I'm finished with the experimenting...)
I can't tell, if it is possible to spray it. I also thought about it, but since I have to thicken it anyway, it maybe a problem with the spray valve.
It is cureing by itelf at room temperature (it consists of two components, mixed together). So after 30 minutes, you are in trouble with your spray-gun. Before it's cured it can be cleaned with acetone.
If it's too liquid, the pigments will sediment, maybe with different velocities, and the color might be not as intended.
The consitencs of the cured material is much like latex. I'd say not THAT strechtable, but really very stretchable (They say about 1000%, but the additives do have an impact).
Then the surface is very much like rubber, and has a great friction. I still wonder how that can be changed. Powdering with talcum is an option, but it has the disadvantage to have a white color ...
If you choose to use PUR, you should wear gloves and protecting glasses for the eyes. A good ventilaton is also necessary, since the two comonents are harmful when in contact with the skin, the eyes or if inhalated. After beeing cured, there is no more danger.
Greetings,
Wonko
I am using PMC 121/30 from "smooth-on.com", and I'm very satisfied with it so far.
I am still experimenting on how much "aerosil" (also smooth-on.com) I have to add to make it thicker. It takes about 30 minutes to cure, and it is originally very liquid. So it would simply flow away if you just pray it onto a surface.
Tinting it with pigments is also no problem. I used titandioxide (natural) which has a creme tone, siena bured (brown), and a little bit of red to achieve a skin tone. ( I will post the details on my webpage anyway, if I'm finished with the experimenting...)
I can't tell, if it is possible to spray it. I also thought about it, but since I have to thicken it anyway, it maybe a problem with the spray valve.
It is cureing by itelf at room temperature (it consists of two components, mixed together). So after 30 minutes, you are in trouble with your spray-gun. Before it's cured it can be cleaned with acetone.
If it's too liquid, the pigments will sediment, maybe with different velocities, and the color might be not as intended.
The consitencs of the cured material is much like latex. I'd say not THAT strechtable, but really very stretchable
(They say about 1000%, but the additives do have an impact).Then the surface is very much like rubber, and has a great friction. I still wonder how that can be changed. Powdering with talcum is an option, but it has the disadvantage to have a white color ...
If you choose to use PUR, you should wear gloves and protecting glasses for the eyes. A good ventilaton is also necessary, since the two comonents are harmful when in contact with the skin, the eyes or if inhalated. After beeing cured, there is no more danger.
Greetings,
Wonko
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
... Wonko, that is a very good question... And here's a small but decent guess...Wonko the sane wrote:
......................................
By the way, Nada, I'm wondering why the professionals (Realdoll, First-Androids,...) didn't try to use silicone foam. I don't have the equipment to try it out, and thats's probably the case for the professionals too that they didnt't try something like that.
Melted polysyrole for example is mixed with a gas, that will become liquid under preassure. If the preassure is released, the gas, solved in the polystyrole, will evaporize and expand the polystyrole to a polysyrole foam that we (probably
Your fully-formed and hardened silicone-based "polysyrole foam" would be, at first, fully saturated for a time and then surrounded for LIFE by "silicone softeners" from a softened silicone outer-skin...
(And I have seen more then enough mismatched plastic "melt downs" from excessive softeners.) So,,, perhaps,,, there is its "fatal rub", you might say?
About a "bearing surface" between, possibly, two very sticky and "squeaky" plastics... So,,, let's think about a totally "alien material" like a very fine linen, with a nice open and very gentle weave, as a slight, but fairly durable bearing-like surface and then it would, also, act like a "holder", of sorts, to keep something like a "silk powder" much more in place... (Or,,, maybe,,, a synthetic wool might have more "openings" for, both, some needed warmth or "R Value" and then, for that powder,,, perhaps???)
... Jim Nada...
(That "bearing surface" idea is an "oldie" and from my fairly long-winded "COM Gel - a SUPER Skin" for our replicant-discussions, here at TDF, well over a year ago.)
To me,,, since we need to AIM at a fairly thin and removable "skin" for easy access for our never-ending "quest" with robotic improvements and REPAIRs then why not, first, add one more easily replace-able "catsuit" as a replicant's outer-sleeve, with a bit of outer-skin feel, warmth and some much needed "plastic seperation", to boot ???
And Heck,,, IF done correctly, in a very durable flexable nylon or spandex, this "trival outer-catsuit" could act like a "temporary keeper" and maybe even as a slight "finishing, shaping and sizing" cover for all of the foam pieces within your replicant?
hey guys, be careful using any type of polyurathane foam. sometimes the foam product does not come with good warnings/instructions. this stuff contains 'isocyanates' which can do major lung damage.deusbot wrote:The Pandora dolls are listed as polyurathane foam. I use molding latex for repairs. Everything said so far seems applicable to them. Sounds fun.
use in a well ventilated area, a respirator and gloves is NOT enough to protect you from these fumes. another drawback is the fact that it does not like mosture. lot's of people prefer to mix/pour the stuff outdoors because of the fumes, however if the humidity is high the stuff will not cure properly. this often causes as foam that feels sticky/gooey and it will not retain it's shape properly. a/b\ cold foam is a great and easy to work with substance...just be really careful with it ok?
kosh
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Wonko_the_sane
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I totally agree with Kosh!
(PS: What do you want?!
)
@Nada:
Hm, you mean the bubbles could crack because of the silicone oil that might migrate into the foam? Hm, thats possible. Then we would have to invent soft silicone without silicone oil first. Maybe the foam itself is suitable for the skin, if the bubbles are that small that they are almost not visible. The interior could have "big bubbles" and an open cell structure", while the skin consistst of a closed structure...
I also like the idea of a second skin. But the realisation seams difficult right now.
Greetings,
Mr. Morden... äh, Wonko
(PS: What do you want?!
)@Nada:
Hm, you mean the bubbles could crack because of the silicone oil that might migrate into the foam? Hm, thats possible. Then we would have to invent soft silicone without silicone oil first. Maybe the foam itself is suitable for the skin, if the bubbles are that small that they are almost not visible. The interior could have "big bubbles" and an open cell structure", while the skin consistst of a closed structure...
I also like the idea of a second skin. But the realisation seams difficult right now.
Greetings,
Mr. Morden... äh, Wonko
"There was a point to this story, but it has temporarily escaped the chronicler's mind."
... Yes, Wonko... I was concerned about an "oil softened" outer-silicone skin and its long-term softening effects on your very nice silicone-foam pieces. 
But I do, very much, like you idea of that very refined silicone-foamie "skin".
Microscopic texturing of the outer skin will be needed, anyway, to reduce that very obvious and always, THERE, "slick plastic" smoothness of "plastic dolls" and to help with those camera-flash glare problems...
And your texturing might, also, provide some very needed Steps on our "Road to Realistic Replicants".
(((Try to say that quoted segment 3 times, very quickly, doll folks.)))
... Also, on the inside of your NEW silicone foam outer-skin, you might, JUST, have your very own and built-in "bearing surfaces" with ALL of those micro-bubbles and thereby, less stick and squeek problems, almost "naturally"... (Like Nature and its products will have anything to do with our Universe of Robotic Plastic Dolls... Ahhh??? Cyborg Human-Tissue Dolls, anyone???)
But I do, very much, like you idea of that very refined silicone-foamie "skin".
Microscopic texturing of the outer skin will be needed, anyway, to reduce that very obvious and always, THERE, "slick plastic" smoothness of "plastic dolls" and to help with those camera-flash glare problems...
And your texturing might, also, provide some very needed Steps on our "Road to Realistic Replicants".
(((Try to say that quoted segment 3 times, very quickly, doll folks.)))
... Also, on the inside of your NEW silicone foam outer-skin, you might, JUST, have your very own and built-in "bearing surfaces" with ALL of those micro-bubbles and thereby, less stick and squeek problems, almost "naturally"... (Like Nature and its products will have anything to do with our Universe of Robotic Plastic Dolls... Ahhh??? Cyborg Human-Tissue Dolls, anyone???)
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John929295
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