How to loosen joints?

[Begog]

For some to complain that their doll does not stay in it's original condition or that it needs maintenance is expecting a mechanical device to
never need adjusting, which is not practical. Even a million dollar luxury car needs the oil changed on a regular basis and needs the brakes
replaced after so much use. A doll is no different.

I completely disagree with this.

If the doll manufacturers used nylon or teflon bushing and sleeves in the joints, nylock nuts, and torque'd the nuts and bolts to proper values, there would be close to zero issue with the joints.

An overly loose or overly tight doll joint, is like a car manufacturer who has a door that won't close, or a door that is seized shut and can't be opened.
Would that be an acceptable vehicle to purchase?? No!

It is not like an oil change, an oil change would be the equivalent of washing and powdering the vagina and anus on your doll.

So, you think a doll should just last forever despite all the pounding and never need maintenance, unlike all other mechanical objects? I have to agree with Charlie here.

[haremlover]

TShe has also loosened up some, but her back will not bend. It is too tight. 200 pounds of pressure won't do it. I fear I will break her if I press any harder. Also, she might not straighten up if I do get her to bend.

I had another 155 with this problem, whilst my first was fine, and subsequently another WM family doll with the same mid back bend so stiff I'm likewise worried about breaking her.

Best wishes

Harem

[deegee]

So, you think a doll should just last forever despite all the pounding and never need maintenance, unlike all other mechanical objects? I have to agree with Charlie here.

Show me where I said that.

He stated that getting a defective skeleton is no more than an oil change.
My rebuttal was that no, it is like getting a car with doors that do not work.
My analogy is correct. His is totally wrong.

If you read all of my comments in the thread about the skeleton, you will see that I have a doll who has hip joints that are virtually immovable.
I literally almost have to tear off the TPE skin to get those two joints to move.
The bolts or whatever they use in the hip joints are simply over-torqued to the point where they take significantly more than 100 lbs of torque to move them.
I have to use my full strength or my entire body weight just to eek the joint an inch, and I am a fit 190 lb guy.
I have spent well over an hour for two days, to the point of gasping and sweating, forcing the joints back and forth to try to loosen them up, with no change in tension at all.
I have to push the thigh bone to the point of feeling like it is going to tear through the TPE.
That is unacceptable.

[CharlieWone]

[quote="deegee"]Show me where I said that.

He stated that getting a defective skeleton is no more than an oil change.
No, I never said that. My use of oil change and brake job analogies was to illustrate the two types of complaint I mentioned in the sentence before that. One is that the doll does not stay perfect from use and must be kept up(my oil change, your anus cleaning example) and I also said maintenance, which the brake job referenced. Your idea of a non working car door is indeed a factory defect, but I did not mention a factory defect, I was referring to the original poster who wanted to loosen his factory set dolls joints. You have decided that really tight joints are a factory defect, but I don't think they are. Both of my TPE dolls had the same tightness when new, but plenty of play loosened some of the joints. I.E. a repairable issue, in terms of resetting to factory specs, not a factory defect.

My rebuttal was that no, it is like getting a car with doors that do not work.
My analogy is correct. His is totally wrong.

No, your analogy compared apples to oranges, while mine simply illustrated the point I was making.

[deegee]

An immovable joint, is a door seized shut.
Or if you really prefer using your analogy, a brake seized on.
In my case I have two brakes seized on, so the car doesn't fucking move.

On my doll, I have spent well over an hour just trying to move the hip joints forward and backward to "break them in", which requires all of my strength and body weight to do that, to the point of where I thought the metal skeleton was going to rip through the TPE, it was deforming that badly. If I continue, it will probably push the spine through the torso and ruin the Legs doll.
All of that work didn't loosen the joints one bit, and that would be the equivalent of a lot of "play time".

If all that the manufacturer is doing, is putting a bolt through two metal plates and welding on the nut, then it is no wonder that people have joints going loose (nut welds breaking), and if "use" is loosening them up, then it is simply wearing metal shavings off of the plates and/or bolts/nuts into the TPE cavity, to slowly degrade the TPE around the joint.

In any case, those are bad design decisions.

They should be using Teflon bushings/sleeves/washers, and a torque wrench to torque the hinge bolt to specified values. This would result in consistent movement in all joints that would most likely last for years, virtually no broken joints or too tight joints. At a cost of probably $10 to the manufacturer.

And before anyone jumps on the "liquid TPE is hot" bandwagon, TPE's melting temperature is about 350 degrees F, whereas a Teflon bushing/sleeve/washer has a melting temperature of 650 degrees F, almost twice.

[Begog]

If your doll is THAT hard to position, she is defective and you need to send her back now. My TPE dolls were tight and stiff, but they did move, and eventually loosened somewhat, except for the back hinge on my 157 that is like the hips on yours. For the longest time I thought the backs weren't supposed to bend on the standing dolls, but come to find out, they should. You need to call the manufacturer or vendor and send her back before it is too late. No need to argue with the doll dudes around here, we are just trying to help.

[CharlieWone]

On my doll, I have spent well over an hour just trying to move the hip joints forward and backward to "break them in", which requires all of my strength and body weight to do that, to the point of where I thought the metal skeleton was going to rip through the TPE, it was deforming that badly. If I continue, it will probably push the spine through the torso and ruin the Legs doll.
All of that work didn't loosen the joints one bit, and that would be the equivalent of a lot of "play time".
Maybe you should just get a smaller or lighter doll. You know, something you can handle.
If all that the manufacturer is doing, is putting a bolt through two metal plates and welding on the nut, then it is no wonder that people have joints going loose (nut welds breaking), and if "use" is loosening them up, then it is simply wearing metal shavings off of the plates and/or bolts/nuts into the TPE cavity, to slowly degrade the TPE around the joint.
Not the way they are built, so now you are just guessing.

In any case, those are bad design decisions.

They should be using Teflon bushings/sleeves/washers, and a torque wrench to torque the hinge bolt to specified values. This would result in consistent movement in all joints that would most likely last for years, virtually no broken joints or too tight joints. At a cost of probably $10 to the manufacturer.

Mock up a design and send it to them. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

[deegee]

Don't misunderstand me, my being blunt does not mean that I am angry.
I am not angry at all.
I simply do not feel like I received the level of quality that I paid for.
So that means I will simply use my money for other things.

If your doll is THAT hard to position, she is defective and you need to send her back now.

Yes, I am not over-exaggerating, it takes all of my body weight or strength to even budge the hips an inch.
I could even provide a video if someone didn't believe me.
However:

1. It states multiple times on both the website and the invoice and the packaging: "returns or refunds cannot be accepted and all sales are final.".
2. Even if they did take a return in this case, I live in a remote location in northern Canada, for me to ship the doll back would cost me around $300, more than 25% of what I paid for it.

Maybe you should just get a smaller or lighter doll. You know, something you can handle.

Maybe you shouldn't personally attack people.
I may have disagreed with what you said, but I never attacked you personally.

The Torso Legs is a small doll size, it is only 100cm tall. So again, you are wrong.

Not the way they are built, so now you are just guessing.

I have googled for good skeleton photos and couldn't find any.
All that I found were two really small blurry images that didn't show joint detail, just the skeleton in the mold, and a few partial repair videos.

And I am sure that the skeletons vary significantly from doll to doll based on retail cost.
Even if the designs are steel tubes with a mix of standard bolts and allan hex bolts, nylon bushing end caps, etc., they still need to use Teflon washers and a proper torque wrench to tighten them.
Not the standard spanner wrench you see in the repair videos and "crank it until you think it feels good".

See here for a video where that is all they do. Crank it until I think it is tight enough. It's no wonder there is no consistency in joint movement.
"How to repair the silicone doll"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhQySUrYQZk

Mock up a design and send it to them. I'm sure they would appreciate it.

Do you honestly believe that a Chinese factory would pay me for my efforts and not simply steal the design?
More than likely, all they have to do in many cases is just use a torque wrench instead of cranking the bolts by hand.

I will speak with my wallet.
I had planned on also purchasing two additional dolls after I ordered the torso legs.
After receiving the legs, now, no.
And I posted that on the vendors forum. Which I know they read the posts.

[Begog]

I will speak with my wallet.
I had planned on also purchasing two additional dolls after I ordered the torso legs.
After receiving the legs, now, no.
And I posted that on the vendors forum. Which I know they read the posts.

THIS, is what happens when a member's first purchase ends in disaster. They get disillusioned and leave the hobby altogether. Any approved vendor I know of would indeed take the doll back if too much time has not expired. If you paid over $1200 for a set of LEGS, you got ripped off. Sorry. For not much more than that, I got this:

Jotti18.jpg (2.31 MiB) Viewed 2306 times

I promise you, Jeff @BCD would have done everything in his power to make this right. This is why it is so important to study up on dolls at TDF AND manufacturers before spending your money.[/size][/color]

[deegee]

THIS, is what happens when a member's first purchase ends in disaster. They get disillusioned and leave the hobby altogether. Any approved vendor I know of would indeed take the doll back if too much time has not expired. If you paid over $1200 for a set of LEGS, you got ripped off. Sorry. For not much more than that, I got this:
*edit*
I promise you, Jeff @BCD would have done everything in his power to make this right. This is why it is so important to study up on dolls at TDF AND manufacturers before spending your money.

I spent weeks browsing The Doll Forum and looking into many of the vendors before I made my purchase.

The vendor I purchased from was 1am USA.
I am sure they are a reputable company to deal with, they are also a vendor on these forums.

The Legs were received late last week, about 4 days ago.
They have been sitting in their default shipping position on a shelf for most of that time.

The price of the Legs was $870 US dollars.
I am located in Canada, so with our monetary exchange rate I did pay $1223.03 CDN dollars total including duty and import fees.
That is approximately an increase in 40% over the USA listed price due to our exchange rate and duties.
That is why I spent time on TDF before purchasing, because any TPE or Silicone doll for me is a large expense and a large investment.
Since I have no prior experience with these dolls and their quality, that is also why I opted to take the chance on the Legs first for ~$1200.00 CDN before I was to drop ~$2500.00 CDN on something like the 140cm Kimber doll from 1am.
Had I spent twice the money on the 140cm doll and also received a doll that was partially "joint stiff", then yes, I would have been posting as angry instead of just blunt.

1am's Legs page can be found here:
https://iamdollusa.com/product/tc1301-legs/

1am's FAQ regarding returns can be found here:
https://iamdollusa.com/faq/

However, I do not fault 1am. It is the manufacturer's design and/or assembly issue that is the problem.

I guarantee that no vendor is going to take a loss of 25%-50% the price of the doll to pay for return international shipping and to ship another doll out internationally.
I have moved on from the bad purchase and have no desires at this time to deal with any vendors now or in the future.
Other than returning to these forums to reply to notifications, I have no other plans at this time to post or be involved on TDF.
I have no ill will towards any persons or vendors or the forum itself.

[Begog]

Well, Deegee, sorry you had a bad experience. I know Brent at 1am, and even bought a doll from him. My experience was pleasant, and the doll is in great shape after a year of heavy use. He will work with you, but can't help that exchange rate, duties, or shipping. My advice is to not give up. Next time get a whole doll. Sure it seems like a lot of money, but compared to real women, this is chump change.

[bobhenry]

I will speak with my wallet.
I had planned on also purchasing two additional dolls after I ordered the torso legs.
After receiving the legs, now, no.
And I posted that on the vendors forum. Which I know they read the posts.

THIS, is what happens when a member's first purchase ends in disaster. They get disillusioned and leave the hobby altogether. Any approved vendor I know of would indeed take the doll back if too much time has not expired. If you paid over $1200 for a set of LEGS, you got ripped off. Sorry. For not much more than that, I got this:

Jotti18.jpg

I promise you, Jeff @BCD would have done everything in his power to make this right. This is why it is so important to study up on dolls at TDF AND manufacturers before spending your money.[/size][/color]

dang. which face is that one ?

[Begog]

I will speak with my wallet.
I had planned on also purchasing two additional dolls after I ordered the torso legs.
After receiving the legs, now, no.
And I posted that on the vendors forum. Which I know they read the posts.

THIS, is what happens when a member's first purchase ends in disaster. They get disillusioned and leave the hobby altogether. Any approved vendor I know of would indeed take the doll back if too much time has not expired. If you paid over $1200 for a set of LEGS, you got ripped off. Sorry. For not much more than that, I got this:

The attachment Jotti18.jpg is no longer available

I promise you, Jeff @BCD would have done everything in his power to make this right. This is why it is so important to study up on dolls at TDF AND manufacturers before spending your money.[/size][/color]

dang. which face is that one ?

LOL! That's a WM face #56!

Jotti9.jpg (508.15 KiB) Viewed 2217 times

[Lucid Dreamer]

Okay, so I've read through all this and still found nothing quickly effective. I suppose this is a testament to the quality of WM joints, but a quick method must exist right?

I mainly would like to loosen up my dolls left knee because it is tighter than the right one. Is there really no other way besides cutting my doll open or waiting a year for it to loosen naturally?...I also want to greatly loosen up her hips and back if possible.

Does anyone have a set of "stretches" and "exercises" they use to quickly loosen up a joint!...I'm impatient

[ilikedolls123]

I don't believe that the WM joints can be quickly loosened. Once the nut and bolt are tightened they are spot welded. I still have the skeleton to my old torso legs and that is what I saw when I stripped the TPE off of it.

I do recall that OR Doll once mentioned in a thread that they could do stiff or loose joints, depending on what a customer wants. I wonder who else offers that and who doesn't? I may start a new thread to address that.