Warranty on defects?

[DarkOne]

Hi. I am somewhat interested in buying a head for oral in the future. I am wondering what kind of warranty if any does WMdolls have against manufacture defects on the head? such as tears that open where the ears attach to the skull and in oral cavity, not due to stress* but due to the mold/skull being too cold and causing the TPE to cool before casting is complete, resulting in weak spots/invisible tears.

*Stress tears are more often seen in the corner of the lips, those are more ragged in nature and are not a result of manufacturing defects but just limits in the TPE material and manufacturing, the doll would need an O mouth to eliminate those.

You can tell when its a molding defect because the tear is exceptionally clean yet oddly curved in nature and happens with very little stress, where surrounding TPE can take several times as much stress without failure. Stress tears happen at existing sharp corners and areas where stress is highest.

[dollguy13]

Hi. I am somewhat interested in buying a head for oral in the future. I am wondering what kind of warranty if any does WMdolls have against manufacture defects on the head? such as tears that open where the ears attach to the skull and in oral cavity, not due to stress* but due to the mold/skull being too cold and causing the TPE to cool before casting is complete, resulting in weak spots/invisible tears.

*Stress tears are more often seen in the corner of the lips, those are more ragged in nature and are not a result of manufacturing defects but just limits in the TPE material and manufacturing, the doll would need an O mouth to eliminate those.

You can tell when its a molding defect because the tear is exceptionally clean yet oddly curved in nature and happens with very little stress, where surrounding TPE can take several times as much stress without failure. Stress tears happen at existing sharp corners and areas where stress is highest.

I'd be very interested to know this question in regards to the entire doll. I have always been under the impression there is no warranty due to the nature of the doll. My interest however is more in the skeletal function of the doll. However there is no U.S. based repair facility even if such a warranty did exist.

[NingyouLover]

Pretty much these dolls are sealed and skeleton repairs are impossible. I saw a German video where a guy cut out the skeleton of a TPE doll (don't know what manufacturer of doll). The way TPE is formed, those deep type of cuts could never be repaired with glue like silicone. Some suggest heat, but no one has ever successfully done anything like that, at least I have never heard of it and that extensive. A repair would probably be the same cost as a new doll, so no one will bother.

I have heard of members getting a new doll replacement because of manufacturing defects, so they do stand behind their product, but it would have to be right away (like soon after arrival), any more lengthy period of time, they can't tell if there has been abuse or not. If it is obviously a manufacturing defect they take care of it if you are the 1st owner, probably weeks later as sometimes it takes awhile to encounter structural defects.

In general you can't return a doll because of the sex part (hygiene), but at least I know WM tries to make every effort to maintain customer satisfaction (I am talking about 1st owner, not 2nd or 3rd owner).

OK, I'll say it: in some ways these are of the more "disposable" variety type dolls. (Don't let Hiroko know I said that, she would be upset)

Ning

[WM Dolls Affiliate]

We have never had any manufacture defects like this reported on a delivered head, but if such a thing occurred on a head due to some manufacture defect the reseller would discuss the alternatives with the customer yes, and the reseller will talk to his representative at WM. Possible outcome would be repair, partial or full refund or new item, depending on the individual case. Yes, you would have to be first owner and report this to the official reseller (they are all represented here on TDF) you bought it from, or directly to us if you bought it directly.

[haremlover]

With the greatest of respect, I'm not entirely happy with the response.

The manufacturing design of these heads needs improvement.

The WM doll of which I had experience came to me with one split ear and without much activity with me I found to my surprise that the other had split whilst in my care.

I glued the first with superglue - cyanoacrylate - and it worked fine. The second I didn't get round to gluing as I only saw it when examining her closely on handing her over to someone else.

I'm sure, as you say, that you have never had the fault reported on a new head as delivered, but it is such a very very common fault that it's clearly a manufacturing issue.

Because it's a manufacturing issue and because it is clear that WM dolls crawl out of the woodwork of sellers to whom WM sells but who are "unauthorised" but who buy legitmately from WM and who sell legitimately (of which I have personal knowledge from a friend in China), to limit guarantees only to dolls bought through "legitimate" sellers seems disingenuous.

Likewise the limitation of being the first owner seems rather unfair. Dolls should have a guarantee period. Period - in the American sense. There are many legitimate reasons why people will buy a doll and not connect with her, or acquire a significant other between ordering and receiving, or the wife discovers and isn't too happy . . . so sell her virtually immediately to someone else within a very short time period. It's unfair for a time dependent manufacturing issue rather than an owner dependant issue not to be covered by the manufacturer's guarantee.

Hitdoll who describes a brotherly relationship to WM has a clear guarantee policy http://hitdoll.com/question.asp with a time period of 180 days. I haven't seen any time period for WM and, with respect, I'd urge you to adopt one.

As a matter of market forces, if WM dolls have a guarantee only on a DOD basis - Dead On Delivery - and not much more than that, and only through specific sellers even though a doll might have been sold and bought legitimately, and only to the prime purchaser rather than any subsequent sub purchaser, the reality is that the second hand real value of a WM doll must be . . . . low.

If people aware of such limitations know that they are buying a doll that as soon as they get it has a significantly depreciated value, then they will look to other manufacturers of dolls that hold their value so that other manufacturers will flourish and WM will suffer loss of sales.

This is simply standard market forces with which many companies in China are unfamiliar. "Chinese Business" in its colloquial sense and operated by many companies in southern China relies upon having a flood of x-billion customers who they can sell the latest glossy product to in naivity. Many such products made by such Chinese companies fail prematurely and are dumped: this is not environmentally friendly and is an abuse of the earth's resources. The human race faces extinction from (a) war with each other - as we see first hand in the middle east, and migrants in the mediterranean and the Indian ocean from Myanmar - and (b) war with the earth. The southern Chinese manner of business is one of consumption and dumping, not environmentally friendly and leading to the extinction of the human race.

So if WM wants to flourish as well as other companies, it needs to compete not only with
- sexiness of sculpture
- diversity of models with something for everyone
- quality of manufacture
but also a guarantee period so that the second hand value is high.

The nature of the guarantee statement above is appropriate for a disposable sex toy. Discerning customers will want a doll as a treasured possession, not a mere sex toy.

I was severely castigated for telling a friend to sell his TPE doll whilst she was still in perfect condition and so would still retain a high second hand value. It was advice which was interpreted as hostile to WM - but it in the light of the guarantee statement above, was true. My response here won't endear me to WM - saying things that are true are not hostile to WM: rather the reverse, as identifying areas where a company can improve enables them to compete better.

The very fact that this question has been raised identifies that this is an issue on which everyone knows there is concern. If one's interpretation of friendship is based on hiding truth, especially truth that everyone knows, it is corrupt - and in a society that is free, and based on market forces, we have to reject that. The best business is based on truth.

In a totalitarian state it might be necessary not to voice obvious truths that everyone knows, as a matter of survival. Voicing a truth becomes a betrayal to the system, and one is disappeared. I would have been disappeared in China long ago, murdered or imprisoned.

But those days are past in the rest of the economic world and the system of market forces in which the customer chooses and buys what is best, with the freedom to do so, is economically different.

The days of manufacture for short-cycle consumption on a planet with a human race at saturation point and limited resources more to plunder, are days past also. For the survival of the human race on the planet, all business has to measure up to the standards of sustainability and the circular economy as promoted by Dame Ellen McArthur.

The needs of the human race to avoid extinction are economically different.

This is an opportunity for WM to be able to show excellence and compete better.

Best wishes

Harem

[DarkOne]

I'll state I have talked to an authorized WM retailer (here on TDF) about my doll and they have said: "I have seen similar defects on other TPE dolls. We currently believe that these products came from WM Dolls' old factory and were manufactured between January and April 2015."

So saying you have never had any reported defects on a head is bull if your *authorized vendors* here in TDF report seeing these defects. I highly doubt anyone produces 100% reliable products and even the top brand manufactures have had defective products shipped. The difference is people who bought a top brand doll and got a defective one, usually got it replaced free of charge. Not 'sent back for repair, at owners expensive of shipping, to later receive a doll scared from repair', not 'partial refund', but full replacement of the defective part of the doll.

Btw. I also joined this forum after ordering my doll. How was I to know they are not an authorized reseller? Why are these defective dolls not directly sold from the manufacturer as 'flawed dolls' for a discount, with all flaws clearly listed like several other manufacturers do here in TDF? Instead they are sold in bulk to 'unauthorized resellers' who are not required to disclosed they where bought as flawed dolls when they resell them, in order to continue receiving more defective dolls? Seems like this problem is entirely of WM's own making.

My doll was bought in April btw. I can only assume they tried to mold them without preheating the skull.. saving time since that is a LOT less time you need to wait for the mold to cool if the skull was not preheated, increasing number of dolls you can make per mold/hour, but ruining quality as the TPE will cool before its fully injection molded, resulting in cool TPE hitting cool TPE and not binding properly. Hence defects in the ears and multiple defects in the oral cavity that are near impossible to fix. Plus any defects in the oral cavity allow fluids to become trapped between the skull and TPE where they will grow god knows what and become a very real health hazard.

My guess would be WMdolls was overwhelmed with orders, hence starting up the new factory and cut corners in the meantime to increase production.

haremlover: I doubt the 2nd ear split in your care, I suspect it was always split. As a molding defect, the tears are 100% invisible unless you pull on them. Then they open as easily as when freshly cleaned TPE sticks to each other as the TPE never joined in the first place. (Takes a few seconds but then pulls apart with basically 0 force, pulling on the ear to stretch it just 1/2" is more then enough force, when TPE itself could survive being stretched 2" without problems) Often they close right back up invisibly too since the tear is perfectly smooth, so even if you have seen the defect you can close it and nobody will know unless they know what to check for and how to check.

Also note how the tear on the ear happens at the THICKEST point of the ear where it attaches to the face. any kind of stress tear would happen at the thinnest point where stress is highest.

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There is 2 similar 1" long tears inside her mouth too, going right down to the skull.

[DarkOne]

Oh, and here defects I found inside the head. Note how they don't look ANYTHING like the tears you'll see on the corner of a dolls mouth or vagina/anus from use, and they go right down to the skull. The tears are also 90 degrees from each other, and smooth but curved inside. Nothing at all like any kind of 'tear' that should happen from stress.

I don't even know how on earth that flap was formed.

Keep in mind, these pictures where taken from a doll bought from an Aliexpress seller, Not WM directly.

[haremlover]

I've found the photos of the ear injury that surprised me and don't think I've seen yet a second hand TPE doll for sale without it. . . .

The good news is that it's easy to repair and so shouldn't have to be an issue about warranty but the better news would be if they were made so as to be less likely to suffer such injuries

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There are clearly two layers which delaminate easily. Superglue, cyanoacrylate, is an easy solution.

Best wishes

Harem

[DarkOne]

I've found the photos of the ear injury that surprised me and don't think I've seen yet a second hand TPE doll for sale without it. . . .

The good news is that it's easy to repair and so shouldn't have to be an issue about warranty but the better news would be if they were made so as to be less likely to suffer such injuries

There are clearly two layers which delaminate easily. Superglue, cyanoacrylate, is an easy solution.

Best wishes

Harem

The big problem here is its an indication it was not molded correctly. When cold TPE hits cold TPE, it just forms two perfectly smooth mating layers.. you can even see some of the little bumps in one layer are recessed in the other, and it joins perfectly outside of the defect. Absolutely 0 roughness like you see in any kind of stress induced tear.

And if the ears are suffering molding defects.. So can other areas, like the oral cavity on mine.

[karpos]

We have never had any manufacture defects like this reported on a delivered head, but if such a thing occurred on a head due to some manufacture defect the reseller would discuss the alternatives with the customer yes, and the reseller will talk to his representative at WM. Possible outcome would be repair, partial or full refund or new item, depending on the individual case. Yes, you would have to be first owner and report this to the official reseller (they are all represented here on TDF) you bought it from, or directly to us if you bought it directly.

I think this quote pretty much sums up WM's position on the issue. <removed, Rule 10>. So the big word of warning is to only buy a WM doll through an "official" vendor.

[Joe1]

Really makes me leery of buying a wm doll....seems like poor business.

[dollguy13]

Really makes me leery of buying a wm doll....seems like poor business.

my 1AM USA doll arrived with many defects like this. It is sad but it does happen. I found ORdoll however and I'm glad they seem to have a high craftsmanship and quality of doll

[DarkOne]

Really makes me leery of buying a wm doll....seems like poor business.

my 1AM USA doll arrived with many defects like this. It is sad but it does happen. I found ORdoll however and I'm glad they seem to have a high craftsmanship and quality of doll

What 1AM doll? Isent 1AM a WM vendor?

[karpos]

my 1AM USA doll arrived with many defects like this. It is sad but it does happen. I found ORdoll however and I'm glad they seem to have a high craftsmanship and quality of doll

Did you report this to 1AM? If so what was the approximate date you reported it?

[Xephyr]

I wouldn't waste investing in a WM head for oral. It's pretty mediocre. JM head is what I would opt for instead.