The slow death of silicone dolls

[Pron]

Normally I try not to waste my time on the TPE / silicone doll war but I have to decide between both materials even in my job.
I'm one of few people here who ordered and got a doll which costs more than $10.000 as my first silicone doll with equipment like doll stand (thanks to German customs).

Before I had a TPE WM155 from manufacturer recommended vendor and ordered a huge amount of equipment and TPE to keep her in shape. The material cost much more than the doll.
Maybe it's good I got this doll to test what it's like to have a doll.
The wasted time cost more than my Realdoll…..
Also I tested and remolded tons of fleshlight and TPR / TPE material.
I also have a silicone Leeloo which is great, too.

All I can say it depends on your taste what kind of doll / material you want to have.
My WM can do some positions I wouldn't force my realdoll to do.
Modern silicone can have the same softness like TPR or TPE.
If people tell about pencil rubber hard silicone, they got a very old doll or some other crap but not the state of art.
I'm really surprised with the few dolls / toys I have I agree with 95% of the experiences of Begog who spends much more time here and on other forums and makes much more comments .

There are people who want to eat fastfood and there are people who want to eat a delicious steak which costs more.

I want to have the delicious steak every day because I'm working hard for it.
For me the silicone dolls are the better deal and my next will probably be a silicone doll too.
If some silicone manufacturers with bad business die or reduce the available products it might be sad for some, but some other silicone doll manufacturers sell more dolls than ever before at the moment and the number of dolls sold goes straight up.

[NeedWaifu]

Well, I dont know why people whine on silicone price.. you see tpe dolls costing 2k all the time, where silicone dolls are at that price also.. A bit more but at the same ballpark.

I wouldnt even consider tpe dolls unless they would be 500. The negatives are too costly to even consider them. One time use only, extreme caring required..

[TJ_Foxx]

As far as we customers go, it's all about personal preference why we prefer platinum silicone or TPE dolls. Period. As far as vendors and manufacturers? Maybe tell us why your product is what customers want and why. Who cares of you own a gas/petrol car, diesel, eco-fuel, hybrid, electric or all of them? Who cares if you own PS, TPE or both? I'd like to think these very successful companies are making decisions to target a sector of the doll market and perhaps new sectors. Ford is stopping production of all sedan and passenger style cars other than the Mustang and will focus on utility vehicles and trucks. That's smart, not suicide. I'd say the same for PS doll manufacturers and their direction. As it was mentioned, some TPE manufacturers have stepped up their game to compete with platinum silicone companies. The TPE companies didn't lower the bar to compete with Amazon/Ali-Ex, eBay brands and knock-offs. PS companies are raising their bar as well.

[rubherkitty]

Long live, TPE, silicone, latex, vinyl & polyurethane!!!

Who would have thunk an old Chevy would still be popular. Should have crushed all these 40 yrs ago to make rail road spikes.

[Silicondoll]

Hi,

it urges me for a long time to make this post, and I think now is the time…

Silicone is dying, everyone in this business knows this. Not the material itself, that is sturdy. It's the silicone manufacturers which deliberately commit suicide (IMHO).

The recent developement everybody who observes the ongoing things has noticed is in a nutshell: Silicone dolls are relatively expensive, turnover decreases massively, silicone manufacturers have less profit to create new dolls or to work on enhancements; demand decreases further because there are less head and body style options for silicone dolls, resulting in breaking down of 2nd hand market for silicone dolls, decreasing the perceived value even further. It's a spiral which drives itself into rock bottom.

Though, this development is not only caused by TPE competition. To a large degree it is self-made by the silicone manufacturer's policies and the chosen way to do their business.

Some examples:

• Back in October 2016 - that was almost two years ago -, Sanhui was a promising manufacturer. In an unboxing review I gave them a big thumbs up for "skillfully mastering to work with silicone", and "demonstrating an impressive level of detail Sanhui is paying attention to". And a few years before that, even before George from X/S brought Sanhui onto TDF, I advocated their dolls as an alternative to TPE. Instead of being thankful for years of support, Sanhui decided to discontinue to cooperate with resellers. Sanhui tried to impose completely inacceptable terms of trade, including the refusal to comply with international trade law. So I had to blacklist Sanhui. It was an unavoidable decision, but it was not caused by bad dolls or bad manufacturing quality. Just because of crazy management decisions.

• With JM Doll it's similar. They also had a portfolio with silicone alternatives to TPE. Technically, they had good and bad things, but overall their dolls were quite OK. Most of the common issues with current TPE dolls were simply inexistant with a JM. At some point JM Doll management decided to discontinue business with all resellers. They decided to focus on direct sales. So they lost support from resellers. I don't think it made their business grow, but who knows; they never reverted this decision. So another silicone manufacturer deliberately vanished into nirvana.

As it is characteristic for Chinese manufacturers, both brands remain available through wholesale channels, no matter what the factory management decides. Some vendors still carry them. I think this is unresponsible since these dolls are not designated for the international market. The wholesale vendors purchase from the domestic Chinese market, and what they get is a different quality. It can be B-grade or worse dolls, with features which do not match the manufacturer's advertising on their international websites. And last but not least, Chinese wholesale traders are unreliable. You get a D cup instead a B cup doll plus a "sorry" for free. But you most probably won't get a decent doll through Chinese wholesale. For me as a vendor that leaves two options - selling crap or dropping the brand completely. I decided for the latter. So two theoretically decent silicone manfacturers are gone totally unnecessary, just because of odd management decisions.

• Over here in Europe it's not too different. In France we have a long-standing silicone manufacturer called Dreamdoll Creations or DDC in short. They are even TDF-accredited, but you might not heard about DDC because nobody promotes them. They make decent silicone dolls - and they still make them like a decade ago. These dolls are sturdy, but they still are as dolls were a decade ago. For reasons I can only guess, these dolls are not developed further. If you compare them visually or haptically with a current TPE doll, they loose. Even their skeleton is like a decade ago. Sturdy, but less posable than a cheap TPE doll. Though, the dolls are not bad, they just are not what the market demands anymore. The manufacturer lacks innovation. It's a slow death.

There are other silicone manufacturers which are not TDF-accredited, so I am not allowed to mention them in further detail, but the pattern is more or less the same. Odd business decisions result that they do not even try to get onto TDF. From TDF management I know that they would be accepted with pleasure. But they decide to not even ask. That's another kind of deliberate suicide. It's sheer hybris to believe that one can prosper in the long run without being listed on the most important forum for dolls worldwide. Not if you have a niche product like silicone dolls.

And there are other examples.

• Doll Sweet is different from the other Chinese silicone manufacturers. They still cooperate with vendors. They innovate continuously. They have one of the best skeletons among all doll manufacturers, including the high-end segment. They know how to deal with silicone virtuously. And they provide after-sales service. They have it all. But is all good? No, as Doll Sweet just decided to discontinue crucial entry-level product lines without any need. So maybe Doll Sweet wants to focus on the more expensive high-end segment with life-sized dolls? Not really. I ordered an DS-167 Evo with all the latest bells and whistles for a review. Not a freebie, a fully payed doll. After two months, the doll wasn't even shipped yet. Within almost a month, Doll Sweet did not manage to get the completed doll shipped. That does not exactly help to promote a product if there is neither proper promotion material nor you can get hands on a fully payed sample.

Silicone dolls have significant advantages over TPE dolls. Many of the most common issues in current TPE dolls simply do not exist in silicone dolls. But silicone dolls are not perfect and more pricey, so the hurdle is much higher to purchase them. Since on promotion photos all current TPE dolls look (almost) as good as a high-end silicone doll, it requires some knowledge to appreciate the not so obvious advantages.

From a customer's point of view I'd think twice before shelling out $5,000 for a supposedly superior silicone doll without having seen one. That's why entry-level silicone dolls are so important. Same material and same manufacturing quality like their taller sisters, just with the fraction of the price tag. Dolls to try out and make first experiences. If there are no affordable entry-level silicone dolls, new customers will simply die out as they won't get the chance to experience the advantages of silicone over TPE. Without affordable entry level silicone dolls, knowledge about silicone advantages will become limited to elitist circles.

All this is not solely caused by price competition with the cheaper TPE dolls as silicone manufacturers complain. Price is one (important) factor, but not the only one. The demand is there. Just there are no products anymore. Thanks to odd management decisions.

It's a strange world.

Sandro

Hi Sandro

.... und ich habe lange darüber nachgedacht,was du da alles geschrieben hast!
Also wenn Du für Einsteiger Silikondolls zum super Billigpreis verkaufen willst und meinst das geht
Warum bitte produzierst Du dann nicht selber deine eigenen "High End SilikonDolls Made in Germany
und verkaust die uns dann mit 2Jahre Rundumsorglosgarantie für 1.999,99€

and I've been thinking a long time about what you wrote there!
So if you want to sell "for beginners silicone dolls for a super low price .... and you can do that,
Why do not you then produce your own "High End Silicone Dolls Made in Germany"?
and then the 2 years warranty gives us € 1.999.99

I am just a buyer not a dealer

[Pron]

Much more surprising than the slow death for me is the censorship and all the deleted posts here.
Maybe you can sell more silicone dolls from manufacturers with better quality or customer service.

[rgp3]

Looks like Sandro's in Europe?

I'm in the US and just purchased a 150cm Silicone Z-0nedoll through Realistic Love Doll for $1,699 and couldn't be happier. It looks like Sanhui and JM Doll both have several nice Silicone offerings for under $2k as well.

Realistic Love Doll is a French Company registered in Hong Kong with offices in France and Taiwan, so I guess I'm wondering why another European company doing business in the US market doesn't appear to be suffering from what you describe? I'll agree that Z-onedoll seems to have moved on to bigger and heavier dolls (and, therefore, pricier dolls), which pushes me towards Sanhui and JM doll.

What am I missing?

[TJ_Foxx]

Much more surprising than the slow death for me is the censorship and all the deleted posts here.
Maybe you can sell more silicone dolls from manufacturers with better quality or customer service.

Posts are removed from a given thread for a number of reasons. The most common are:

1) The author decides do delete it.
2) The post in question refers to another post that was edited/revised/removed making it irrelevant, so it is removed by the author or staff.
3) The post breaks one or more of the ROC as determined by discussion among the moderation team.

[deerman]

Must be a very slow, slow end. my Real Doll, Erica and Courtney my first Boy Toy doll turned 10 at the end of last year. and many more to go!

[Robert Lloyd]

And as mentioned, maybe something will replace TPE & Silicone.

Perhaps all women will stop being such pains in the neck that drive men here to begin with! Now that's the best solution

[rubherkitty]

And as mentioned, maybe something will replace TPE & Silicone.

Perhaps all women will stop being such pains in the neck that drive men here to begin with! Now that's the best solution

I don't find women a PITN. There is just absolutely no way I can have the type of woman I want at the present moment. If things were different, I may have never gotten into dolls and joined TDF.
But this is all for another thread.

[Dollstudio]

I'm in the US and just purchased a 150cm Silicone Z-0nedoll […] for $1,699 and couldn't be happier.

I did not mention Z-Onedoll because currently nobody knows where they are heading with the new company. The old one (GNSETC) focuses on TPE (Hitdoll brand). When the split was announced in March, all entry-level models were retired (body styles 111cm/120cm/130cm/138cm, including the 150cm model). The lineup starts now with the ZO-145 at ~$1,840 respectively ZO-151 at ~$1,880 (at least if you comply with their minimum retail prices). As far as the Z-Onedoll lineup is concerned, about 20 existing heads were retired in March and no new announcements were made since, also there was no promotional activity since March. ZO remains available more or less, and they still cooperate with vendors, but they are in 'sleeping beauty' mode.

The new company has launched a new brand called Sino-doll. It targets the upper medium segment of silicone dolls with currently on life-sized model. Similar to DS, there is no affordable entry-level model. And that is exactly my point. There is no upgrade path for new customers to learn about these silicone doll lineups except buying a large and expensive one right away. Oldtimers, myself included, will remain interested in these expensive dolls and occasionally even by one. But the majority of new customers will not be aware that there is something else, far beyond the entry level price point.

For oldtimers, a price point of $4,000 or above might appear normal. For the current generation of new customers it is not. The price point for a good entry-level silicone doll like the DS-Mini is around $1,000 shipped. That's the entry-level segment I am talking about. At this threshold current new customers dare to make an experiment. If they are happy, they will remain loyal and later buy a taller doll from the same brand.

If there are no silicone offers at this threshold anymore because everything affordable is discontinued, these customers will be led directly to TPE respectively 'Aliexpress silicone'. If have these discussions every day - there is an increased interest in alternatives to TPE, but there are no adequate offers because of management decisions of silicone doll makers.

Sandro

[danDub]

Silicone Forever

4 Dolls currently and a new Mechadoll in my future ...

No TPE for me

Same here, I’d rather go without a doll if it meant choosing tpe

[Arthur1960]

Silicone Forever

4 Dolls currently and a new Mechadoll in my future ...

No TPE for me

Same here, I’d rather go without a doll if it meant choosing tpe

Sacre bleu!

[Brash]

thanks Sandro. Very interesting.