Unboxing Gynoid GT-165/86 with ›Jì Xiāng‹ head aka Model 7

[TheIQF++]

I really liked the faces and the artistic detail on the skin. It is very disappointing that too many issues make it hard to recommend these dolls.
There are many things they need to fix and flat out completely change.
Speaking of potential, I believe they could have had a "raising of the bar" effect on the rest of the doll world if they had gotten things right.

[Ztar073]

@harem: Since I only posted summaries of my recent reviews on TDF (yes, there is a reason for this), I am not sure if you went through the whole nine yards of reading the long version outside of TDF. If not: What I have seen in my Model 7 sample is unprecedented. Yes, there was sloppiness with packaging, and the doll is probably a bit too delicate, and the factory messed up joint adjustments big time, the lack of usable standing capability is most deplorable, and so on. But besides these issues there are numerous details which simply have nothing to do with the usual quality and type of dolls we are discussing elsewhere in this forum. These details are so much beyond anything else.

For example, the precision of seamline trimming is unparalleled by any manufacturer I know. For the eye mechanism I used for the first time ever the term 'perfect', and I still stand by my word. The skin surface finishing is not just well done or good looking. It is artwork level. No other manufacturer listed on this forum has this skill level. And there is a lot more of exceptionally good things to explore on these dolls.

However, all that does not change the fact that (once more) I got a doll that is utterly useless for my use case - showcasing and photography. But the GT dolls do not deserve to be condemed in general.

Obviously, from the business point of view, the current GT dolls are nightmares. And clearly, if the issues at hand are not fixed asap, the company deserves to become a peripheral footnote in doll historiography. But that would be a severe loss, and I very much hope that there will be tangible solutions soon. Whatever happens, I hope GT will do the right thing, and I will try my best to support them.

But all I can say at this point is that since I am observing the doll business I have not encountered a manufacturer with as great potential as Gynoid.

Sandro

Harem,
Sounds like deja vu doesn't it?
You really have to see and then experience the problems with these dolls to truly understand how conflicting the experience with these dolls are. I remember when I said similar things about the doll I received from them as what's posted above, you said I was "in love " lol
It's hard not to make excuses for such a piece of art, even when you know it is otherwise very flawed.

[Dollstudio]

Hi,

let's give a couple of updates.

1) The critical issue at hand is the lack of operational silicone glue and GT silicone samples for systematic testing of common silicone repair products like Wacker E4, Permatex flowable windshield sealer and the like. Since Sil-Poxy doesn't work at all, it's absolutely crucial to find a glue that can bond incisions and tears and is available in Europe or the U.S.

I asked GT two times during the past week, if they could "recommend a silicone adhesive which is available outside of mainland China and which works on the Gynoid silicone blend?", and I was promised that they would get back to me. I am still waiting for a reply, so as of now, there is still no known silicone glue that would work reproducably.

If we can not find a working silicone glue, selling or purchasing GT dolls would be crazy. Even the most trivial everyday repairs would be impossible.


2) The second issue at hand is repairs and adjustments in general. On my GT doll, three joints loosened within less than three weeks, so she lost most of her posing capability shortly after her arrival.

For the DIY approach: To tighten joints on a factory fresh doll, a more precise documentation is required, where the bolts/screws are located, how to reach them best, and what tools are required. This kind of a more precise documentation would also allow to assess, if the skeleton is engineered to keep a certain tightness for mor than a couple of days. From what I have seen so far, at least some joints are not designed this way, so even after tightening they might loosen very soon again. Also, since tigthening joints requires to make incisions into the silicone, an operational silicone glue is requires (see above).

Obviously, this kind to trial & error operations are totally inacceptable on a factory fresh doll in the 4k price range. So a repair service network would be nice - send in the doll to professionals and let them do the fixes. GT does not have such a repair service network, and so far, GT seems not be willing to disclose technical details to 'outsiders', so chances are small to set up such a service network with help of GT.

That leaves only one option - return the flawed doll to the factory in China. That's what GT suggested in my case, and that would apply to every other purchase the same way.

Though, there are a couple of problems with sending dolls to China for repairs:

a) High risk. From what I know, sex dolls are not allowed to be imported into mainland China. There are ways to circumvent the attention of Chinese customs authorities, but the doll can not be openly declared.
b) High freigh costs. Shipping from Europe or the U.S. to China and back is expensive. The quote I got from GT is 2 x $700. GT would cover one way.
c) Additional costs. For Europe and other destinations with VAT and low de minimis customs values, a return shipment will be fully charged with import fees. In my case that would cost something around €700-800.

Plus, always tied to two air freight shipments is a potential risk of shipping damage or loss. Two ways = doubled risk, compared to one way.

Most obviously, this approach to fix factory flaws is not very attractive. However, so far no alternative was offered. Not sure yet what to think of it.

Sandro

[Ztar073]

The original doll obviously has a different silicone mixture, but for what it's worth I fixed a problem with the pinky that you will probably eventually run into with this:

20190721_104222.jpg (2.91 MiB) Viewed 2833 times

[Dollstudio]

The original doll obviously has a different silicone mixture, but for what it's worth I fixed a problem with the pinky that you will probably eventually run into with this […]

Thanks for the pointer, at some point it might become necessary to start trial & error tests, if Gynoid Tech remains unresponsive about an operational silicone adhesive.

Yes, the silicone blend has probably changed. However, I do not have the older dolls for comparison and Gynoid Tech did not disclose anything useful about the silicone blend in model 7 - neither if the silicone blend has changed compared to the older models, nor most basic data like the shore hardness.

As far as the vendor side is concerned, Gynoid Tech is now getting very close to a suspension - doll not as ordered, lack of standing capability, multiple serious skeletal flaws ex factory, no doable resolution offered, then the critical silicone adhesive issue and last but not least communication change to the 'silent treatment'. That's simply too much for a factory fresh product.

Sandro

[Willendorph]

It's such a shame. Most of the problems seem to be related to things that would be relatively easy fixes, and they are beautiful dolls. Poor customer support is a really bad omen though for potential buyers.

[Dollstudio]

@Willendorph: Yes, I think all of the issues encountered would have been caught by basic product testing (or something independent like George's PQC back then).

Things like loosening joints are engineering flaws and can be easily fixed by adding certain washers on the right places, and standing without screws is definitely no rocket science. What I prototyped within a couple of days should be managable for a professional manufacturer for a commercial product as well. The factory does not even have to ruin a whole doll for a stress test, a skeleton and foot suffices:

IMG_20190722_174600.jpg (123.64 KiB) Viewed 2793 times

Just put some weight on it and see what happens. Then increase the load and check again. I did that, so I have positively verified that my single foot prototype can sustain a weight of ~50 kg without getting injured. On one foot! That suffices for any current silicone doll, a doll with my foot design could even balance on one foot without hurting herself.

The unpleasant experience in this case is that multiple people offered to help Gynoid Tech months ago. That includes as well haremlover as myself. By listening to well-meaning advice before product launch, exactly these unneccessary failures could have been avoided.

Sandro

[haremlover]

Yes - I have offered to help them.

In my experience a number of manufacturers have come along and not invested in in-house testing as part of their product development nor invested in seeking the advice of someone who knows about dolls to test and gently guide them in the right direction. It's invidious of a company who is going to gain from such advice that Sandro has taken the trouble to provide here to require their tester to pay for or buy their product even with a discount. It's well worth a company's while to supply a doll for testing free to a tester at no cost and in my opinion Gynoid has sent to Sandro a doll that cannot be sold on, and on that basis having supplied a clearly defective doll should reimburse him his money.

It's a company that has significant confidence in their product who'll send a doll to a tester free of charge and is a good sign that the company has a product of which they're proud. They benefit doubly in having private advice if the doll fails significantly, without damage to their reputation, and if the doll is felt to be good enough very significantly good publicity.

With another company last year with a TPE offering, the doll didn't pass muster and so I refused to take photos of her. I only photograph and review dolls which I know are going to be giving people pleasure. If a company sends a doll that's not good enough and results in no good publicity, it's a total loss to the company. A company has therefore to be brave to send me a doll for that reason and Gynoid haven't done so.

Meanwhile if they require the tester to pay significantly, 80% or more, then they don't lose on the production of the doll and it doesn't show as a loss on their balance sheet and so don't care less if they send out a doll with faults.

Another brand was going to send me a doll and upon seeing a customer's photos I told them that the doll looked as though it was one of those clay sculptures from which the mold is cast, and a poor sculpture at that. The company have taken my criticism very seriously, more seriously than any from the customer, and have suggested we wait a while before I review one of their dolls.

I really hope Gynoid take Sandro's observations very seriously and am really rather disheartened about companies using paying customers as their guinea-pigs or product development process which should be completed before commercial production.

If Gynoid do not make a full refund to Sandro I shall be severely disappointed.

Best wishes

Harem

[MannyCan]

This is one of the most honest and thorough and beneficial reviews I've read on TDF.

[Booty Call Dolls]

MC,
That is because Sandro is 2nd to none!
Best,
BCD

[Dollstudio]

Hi,

time for a couple of updates.

1) Return shipment to China. First of all, the return procedure has been iniatiated! It took several weeks to get to this point, but last week I got a shipping label from GT, and today the package was picked up by Fedex. Customs declaration as issued by GT: "Doll display repair" with customs value of USD 200.

In itself the fact of a return is interesting news as this is my first return shipment to mainland China. Without exception, all other manufacturers have claimed in the past years that returned sex dolls would not pass Chinese customs so they could not accept a return. Though, we have sold dolls to mainland China before, and these shipments have passed Chinese customs. But we have never used the term 'doll', never undervalued that much, and always split up the shipments into multiple parts. So it is very, very interesting how this shipment will be handled during import to mainland China.

Also quite interesting is if there will be a replacement, for example if the shipment does not pass Chinese customs. Obviously there is a certain risk of returning a product before having the replacement in the own hands.


2) Fixing & reinforcing padding and packaging. As mentioned in the Unboxing, the packaging and padding of this expensive doll was not exactly exemplary. So it took a 'little' effort to fix the original box with cutouts like this in the walls…

IMG_20190918_143726.jpg (90.97 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

… to something solid and well protected like this:

IMG_20190918_173139.jpg (92.81 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

All in all, fixing the box and repackaging this doll took about five hours.

Additionally I took the liberty to protect head, hands and feet. There might be a reason that GT skips to wrap these parts with some foil ex factory, but if there is, I do not understand it, so I used some bubblewrap:

IMG_20190918_164110.jpg (109.3 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

IMG_20190918_164146.jpg (109.28 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

(Picture above is the wrapped head. Originally, it was freely rolling around in the cardboard box).

So knock on wood that the additional padding helps to get her home safely.


3) Additional observations about the GT-165/86 doll. As already mentioned in the Unboxing, the doll was ordered with standing capability. This is how the feet looked like, right before departure:

IMG_20190918_161358.jpg (75.04 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

IMG_20190918_161404.jpg (74.19 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

Again, this doll never stood on her feet. Those tears happened from her balls touching the floor when sitting. I do not even want to imagine how the feet would look like after standing on the floor or in high heels. If you even remotely consider to make this doll stand, go for the bolts option! The "standing without bolts" option is no good the way it is currently implemented. Currently, the only Chinese doll maker capable of offering working standing feet without bolts is Sino-doll (plus lightweight dolls like Happy Doll or the EX-lite).

Since my Model 7 can not stand, particularily not after her hip joint loosened, and there is no hanging mechanism for storage, she had to sit for a couple of weeks on two soft cushions and a thick blanket. This had consequences for the butt filling.

IMG_20190918_162230.jpg (86.32 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

Picture above shows her (beautiful) rear. That's why I do not like gel implants in the butt. They are way to delicate if you want the doll to sit for longer than a few hours. However, this is not a flaw. It is simply a side effect of increased softness. If a doll with gel filled breasts is stored laying on her breasts, similar distortions are to be expected. It's one of the reasons way a hanging system for storage can be important.

Depending on your individual use case, an alternative might be to order the doll with a solid butt. A solid silicone butt does not distort as easily, not even within years (yes, I have tried this with various dolls). Though, it is not entirely clear if GT has such an option. This screenshot from GT's 150 cm doll seems to indicate that there is a customization option for the butt:

gt-butt-options.jpg (15.1 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

According to this screenshot, the doll is even 3 kg more lightweight with a "harder butt". If I had the choice, I'd go for this "harder butt" without thinking twice - less weight, more durable for storage. But when I asked GT, I got this reply (email from August 30th):

[…] gel implants are very difficult tech, for now we are not ready make it for the butt.

So honestly I have no idea what this section of the product page for Elina means: "25 kg (harder butt), 28 kgs (softer butt)". Maybe GT does not refer to gel implants, or maybe it's something not available yet.

My last observation for now is about the engineering of the vaginal canal. GT is one of the few manufacturers who offer different depths of the vaginal canal (10 cm, 13 cm, 15 cm, or 18 cm). So far it was not disclosed how these different variants are molded (four different molds, or assembled from parts?).

IMG_20190918_161242.jpg (85.1 KiB) Viewed 2516 times

The picture above gives some insight. As a result of the loosened right hip joint, her leg folds unbraked to the right side, causing a lot of strain on the right labia. The way it looks, she is built similarily like a classic Doll Sweet with glued-in insert. So the guesstimate would be that there is a vaginal canal with an approximate depth of up to 18 cm which can be equipped with 'inserts' of different lengths. These inserts are glued onto the vaginal canal opening so the result is a (more or less) built-in vagina.

Again, this is not a flaw but a valid engineering decision. If you can acquire a working silicone adhesive for the GT silicone blend, it's probably even an easy fix. But it gives a new perspective upon the loose joints configuration which I recommended until now. For a regular Doll Sweet, the 'more loose joints' customization option has no negative side effects as the insert does not tear from the walls of the vaginal canal. But Gynoids seem to have a different design. So if you order a GT with built-in (= glued-in) vagina and loose joints ex factory, you might also encounter a similar ripping off the 'insert' from the vaginal canal's walls. So from now on I'd put a question mark behind the recommendation of fixed vagina with loose joints ex factory.

Sandro

[haremlover]

I'm really beginning to wonder if you couldn't have done more harm to Gynoid's reputation if you'd tried.

In my opinion in the full knowledge of your much deeper and longer experience than most here about the consequences of keeping a gell-filled implanted doll on her back firstly were it to have been me I'd have taken precautions supporting her with cushions below the centre of her back and her legs to reduce pressure on the gel implants, and secondly it's not at all kind to Gynoid to publish the photograph of not having done so in this thread.

These are among the most revolting photos I've seen and your willingness to publish them indicates unkindness and actually a lack of understanding about the doll.

Were this doll to have been in my care perhaps I'd have noticed that the foot silicone was softer than perhaps it might be for permanent standing and as a result I wouldn't have put the doll testing exercise to the point of destruction.

Whilst the initial findings were eyebrow-raising the final photographs of doll destruction which you admit were not the fault of the manufacturer raise with me a question about whether you carried out this review in good-faith at all.

Perhaps this thread should be re-titled "How not to treat a doll".

Best wishes

Harem

[Dollstudio]

@harem: I just double checked when I first noticed the tears in the soles on the feet. That was four days after the doll arrived, half a dozend of small tears per foot. Five days after her arrival I had a clean cut across her balls, alongside the non-deburred edge of the metal foot plate. At this point I still believed the claim that the doll could stand on her own feet without bolts, but the tears occured not from standing. This doll never stood on her own feet. The tears occured from the balls slightly touching the floor when sitting. And what is even worse, every movement of the leg enlarges the tears as the non-deburred edge of the metal foot plate acts cuts the foot open from the inside. After the initial 30 minute photo shooting I didn't do anything with the doll. She was just resting. I don't think that I could have conserved her better by doing something else than just letting her rest.

Regarding the soft butt which, by the way, is an undocumented feature: How I sat her was indended to relive the soft butt from pressure. I mentioned two soft cushions under her thighs. So theoretically, the weight should have rested mostly on her thights and the butt should not have been compressed. But what probably really happened is that the whatever-it-is butt filling does not like to be bent at all. At this point I am simply out of ideas how to store this doll. Standing - not possible without destroying the feet. Hanging - not possible without causing damage to the neck. Sitting - not advisable as it distorts the butt filling. That leaves only laying flat on her back, with support below the waist and padding below the butt and heels - and not moving her at all since every movement of the legs would increase the cuts in the soles of the feet. But what is the point of having a doll you can not use for anything?

And last but not least, what kills the experience terminally are the loosening joints, starting on day 4 with the hip joint. Followed a couple of days later by the right shoulder joint, and then the left leg in week three. In week three I hadn't posed her anymore, we just noticed this when a friend was visiting. I don't think that you can conserve a doll's joints more than by not posing her, so what do you expect me to do? The problem with asymmetrically loosened joints is that these joints move erratically (undefined); with a tight hip joint I probably would not have noticed how the vaginal canal is engineered as the right leg would not fold sideways.

However, please do not focus on a few last-minute observations only. If you re-read my review, you will notice a lot of ardour and enthusiasm about things like the outstanding eye mechanism, exquisite seamline trimming, and the incredible posing potential. There are many details to rave about, and in the past weeks I tried to keep reminding about these unique skills shown by GT. All of this praise remains valid.

Though, a doll always comes as a whole package and not as a modular system where you can pick out the components you like most. I have to agree with you that I am struggling about the GT doll as a whole package. For weeks I am trying to figure out real-world usage scenarios for which I can whole-heartedly recommend the doll. With her brilliant skin surface finishing she should qualify for photography and posing - but if the joints loosen within a week, can I really recommend this doll for posing? With a nicely dimensioned vagina and a depth of up to 18 cm she should qualify as a sex toy - but if the loosend hip joint rips her glued-in vagina insert from the vaginal canal and there is neither an anus nor an oral canal, can I really recommend this doll as a dedicated sex toy? With her realistic proportions and body height, she should qualify as display model for fashion - but without hanging mechanism and without standing capability, can I really really recommend her as display model?

In a nutshell, the problem with this doll is that she combines really bad things with really good things. I am totally open for suggestions where this doll could excel. And, of course, I am extremely curious if the engineering of the joints has been fixed, if it is planned to enhance the design of the metal foot plate or to use a firmer silicone for the feet, if there is an option to get the doll without soft filling in the butt and if it reduces her weight and so on.

One of the key questions here is - imho - what you can expect from a $4,000 doll. Joints which loosen within a week are a harsh dissapointment in this price range. Of course I am hoping to get a replacement in a couple of weeks where all these critical issues are fixed so I can report back that you can fully use GT dolls for photography, posing, display and sex. To have a baseline for comparison is the reason why I am making these notes. But we need to make a record of the status quo to have this baseline.

Sandro

[haremlover]

To help someone is to be kind.

I think that you'd pointed out defects very graphically and adequately to help the manufacturer to improve.

To end up sending a wholly trashed doll back to the manufacturer is injury.

To have posted the photographs of the trashed doll that you're sending back to the manufacturer is insult to injury.

<removed>

When a dog's down it's neither kind nor helpful to continue beating it.

Best wishes

Harem

[GOTE]

@Dollstudio
I would like to call you when you have time.
We live in the same city.
Send me a pm message if you are interested.