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Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by hollows+fentiman »

I suppose one thing to mention here is that each doll is different even from the same manufacturer, otherwise why would George and others need to do a PQC? It would appear from some of the comments here that some members have been lucky to have a lady that's lasted without damage for years and others have damage fairly early in life!

Of course it does depend on how well you treat and use your lady and accidents happen too! Most of the nicks Ashaki has have been my fault being stupid in how I carry her around or move her into positions! It certainly isn't her fault! KenDoll, that looks a pretty bad tear there from raising her arms too many times! I may be wrong but I would suggest you go to the Ask the Docs thread to see what can be done!

As for vaginal tears, well that area does get a pounding :whistle: compared to the rest of the material so it is hardly surprising that damage occurs there on some dolls! From what I can gather from others I've seen is that it can occur on both insert and fixed versions but perhaps slightly more on the fixed versions (sorry, don't want to start another debate here as it's the wrong place) but whatever the reason it is a vulnerable area. Obviously, using it 'dry' must be bad for the area but whether waterbased lube or Vaseline etc is better is perhaps debatable and down to personal preference! I started with waterbased lube and now just use Vaseline and I think Ashaki's vaginal lips are now softer than they've ever been and no tears are apparent after ten months!

Sorry if the above is clogging this important thread a bit as I think we all really need to see what positive advice can be given here and Sandro and Indigo have my full support to try to get some clarity on this matter.

Cheers, Hollows.
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Dollstudio »

Hi,

yesterday another thread got deleted (again) because it mentioned an "unlisted manufacturer". TDF management considers mentioning an unlisted manufacturer/brand to be the same as promoting an unlisted manufacturer/brand; this thread repeatedly mentioned "unlisted manufacturers", so to avoid thread removal, I will stick to the TDF listed manufacturers from now on.

Again, different TPE blends used by different TPE manufacturers/brand respond differently to mineral oil care. You need to do own tests, if you have a doll from a not TDF listed manufacturer/brand. This thread is not allowed to give advice for your doll as advice would be considerd promoting an unlisted manufacturer.

Having that said, we currently have the following problem with the TPE blend currently used by TDF-listed manufacturers/brands WM Dolls, OR Doll, and YL Doll (in short: Jinshan TPE):
IMG_0615.JPG
IMG_0615.JPG (136.33 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
IMG_0616.JPG
IMG_0616.JPG (145.04 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
This is a real-world example from an authentic Jinshan doll, obtained from a TDF-listed manufacturer/brand. There is no doubt about authenticity; this is not a "fake" Jinshan doll and not a "copy". The customer sent this photo one week after he got the doll; these facts could be verified by comparing the delivery date from tracking and the timestamp on the pictures. According to the customer, he used water-based lube when having sex with the doll, and he did not use disinfectants containing alcohol. As far as we can tell, this customer made no mistake and followed the (sparse) instructions from the manufacturer by the letter. If you browse through the forum, there are numerous other reports similar to this one.

This is a problem as an authentic doll from a TDF-listed manufacturer/brand should not look like this one week after arrival, at least not if the customer is carefull and tries everything he knows to avoid to damage the doll.

The mineral oil care could have helped - or made it even worse. This depends on the dosage. Too much mineral oil would have made it worse, with right right amount those tears could have been avoided. Now the question is: What is the right amount? Since all this knowledge about mineral oil care is experience-based, we can only give estimates - daily application of white oil or vaseline would probably be harmful, monthly application is probably safe. And even this vague recommendation is only valid for the current Jinshan TPE. To give more precise recommentations, the TPE manufacturers/brands would have to disclose the composition of their TPE blends. They don't do this, so recommendations need to remain vague.

Doll Forever TPE responds differently to mineral oil care. This TPE blend absorbs baby oil, mineral oil (paraffinum liquidum) and white oil (paraffinum perliquidum) much slower. If you would try mineral oil care on a Doll Forever doll, you would have to apply very thin coats of vaseline or Nivea creme. If you over-saturate this TPE blend, you reach the detrimental threshold much quicker because the TPE starts to swell up.

You could try to use this effect for self-repairing of stress fractures, e.g. on upper thights, vagina and arm pits like so:
stress fractures 1.jpeg
stress fractures 1.jpeg (60.17 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
Above: Stress fractures on the butt before applying mineral oil.
stress fractures 2.jpeg
stress fractures 2.jpeg (60.27 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
Above: Stress fractures on the butt after applying mineral oil.

However, this only works if you reduce stress on these areas; meaning, the arms need to be close to the body, and the legs need to closed (default shipping position).

If you do not reduce stress on the high stress areas during mineral oil care, you quickly accomplish a detrimental effect and stress fractures are amplified:
stress fractures 3.jpeg
stress fractures 3.jpeg (63.46 KiB) Viewed 1538 times
Above: Increased stress fractures after applying too much mineral oil.

However, as most other TPE manufacturers/brands, Doll Forever (as stated above) does not recommend mineral oil care at all. WM Dolls does not recommend mineral oil care. OR Doll does not recommend mineral oil care. Climax Doll does not recommend mineral oil care. They do not make care recommendations at all.

That brings us back to square one: There is a problem with the TPE blend shipped by the TDF-listed manufacturers/brands (as shown in the first two pictures). The TPE manufacturers/brands do not offer a solution for this problem. And there are other problems, too, like the risk of growing mould. The TPE manufacturers/brands do not offer a solution for this problem, either.

With mineral oil care you can approach the problem of tensioning tears and growing mould. However, you need to find the right balance and you must avoid overdoing it, otherwise you will cause harm to your doll.

And again, when trying to approach the problems of current TPE blends, you are on your own. Mineral oil care is based on user experience and not a manufacturer recommendation.

Sandro
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by AGL »

OK, so I remove my OR doll's insert about once per week for cleaning after usage. When reinserting, I apply a small amount of Vaseline around the labia & vagina, then rub some mineral oil on the outside of the insert for easier insertion & to prevent mold growth. I also use a little on the surface of the RD insert insertion tool for easy of removal, which I've been using on me TPE dolls when reinstalling the insert. I'm also hoping this inhibits mold growth inside the insert.

So, is this frequency of application acceptable, or am I doing more harm than good? I tried going back to using corn starch for this process, but it really increases the pressure required to install the insert & has me worried I'll do damage from all of the extra friction.

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by haremlover »

I bought second hand a Jinsan doll which had had minimal use. What use I can't tell, the bloke said no use, but he had cleaned her with wipes containing a trace of detrimental substance. The vagina was split as you show.

This has been partially repaired very well using a soldering iron set at 200 degrees and I need to have a second session to finish it perfectly. Upon Indigo's advice I packed the area with vaseline before repair and I'm sure that this has helped the flexibility of the area.

This doll was manufactured in around May of this year and I'm sure that the TPE blend is less soft than around last October.

The doll isn't oily and hardly needs talc at all, although the tactile experience is improved with this.

I think that this is a direction the manufacturers are going in. My Climax 175 wasn't oily and hardly needed talc, and I have another doll from the "UnListed manufacturer" (UL for short) the TPE of which is extraordinarily good.

The TPE of UL is softer than my 2017 Jinsan doll, and even without talc feels amazing. The Jinsan doll has to be well heated in an electric blanket to start to feel soft enough to be enjoyable, and to sleep next to, without the electric blanket on in my opinion the Jinsan is too firm to be realistic. I have treated the functional areas of my UL doll with vaseline and baby oil and this certainly helps insert and removal of the insert. However the insert is quite deep and I think that extracting the insert when dry has led to slight fragmentation on the inside interface between insert and cavity.

I'm sure that with both makes lubrication with baby oil is probably beneficial.

But I have read people's references to "maintenance routine necessary for TPE" and have really wondered what they are talking about. With talc for the reason of making the skin smoother to put on clothes my 2015 and 2016 TPE dolls have no maintenance whatsoever and are still excellent. Lying on top of one of my 2015 dolls caused dryness to the breasts which showed cracking but a single application of baby oil, possibly vaseline, has restored them as original.

The UL manufacturer is apparently bringing out a new improved TPE and I understand that Climax also are changing their TPE again. The material is clearly in a constant state of research and development.

Best wishes

Harem
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Booty Call Dolls »

My recommendation for the TPE doll care with products containing mineral oil (as in the known article) is:
- Monthly oil bath with baby oil (containing paraffinum liquidum)
- Vaseline or Nivea creme from time to time at the joints and the private area
But what happened with my recommendations ?
I can read about weekly and daily oil baths and about TPE dolls fully covered in vaseline.
And that this is made as recommendation to other TPE doll owners.
Therewith you are not following my recommendations !
Therewith you are doing something extreme !
If the doctor says you are to eat only one pill a week and you do that now daily, it is your fault if you are transported out from your home horizontally into the ambulance !
And if you are recommending the daily pill to others, you are acting without responsibility.
Normally when things go wrong, it is NOT the dolls fault.
The owner through her out of equilibrium.
And OR has a very nice TDF care thread now.
http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=224&t=88292
Best,
Jeff and Nyoko

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Booty Call Dolls »

BTW, and I would have to find it, there is a thread showing how oil did help the stress fractures on a dolls inner groin area.
The person was upset about about groin fractures and within a couple days, he was overwhelmed how well the V&O treatment helped.
BCD

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Dollstudio »

haremlover wrote:[…] I bought second hand a Jinsan doll which had had minimal use. What use I can't tell, the bloke said no use, but he had cleaned her with wipes containing a trace of detrimental substance. […]
I think it's safe to post a warning against using baby wipes of any kind on any TPE doll. Baby wipes can be used on some silicone dolls, but they are harmful to any TPE blend currently known. Baby wipes contain either alcohol or other substitute substances which are harmful for TPE. The damage caused by baby wipes can be incresed the more often they are used on the doll, and the more you rub on the doll's skin.

Sandro
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by AGL »

Ah yes, another day, another unanswered question of mine on a TDF thread. :(

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by ZZZZ »

airgirluvr wrote:Ah yes, another day, another unanswered question of mine on a TDF thread. :(
@airgirluvr, regarding your specific question about inserts - I use a plastic bag, which reduces friction going in. Pulling the bag out is relatively easy. Does that type of plastic react with the TPE though? I can't say. Don't take this as advice.

I also wonder, "What about areas where lubrication/oiling frequency is based on sex frequency?" Do we need to alternate oil-based lubricants with, say, water-based lubricants?

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Booty Call Dolls »

airgirluvr,
Indigo20 is busy working on some other things, but when I spoke to hi, he told me it is fine to keep inserts in the doll when not in play.
Your current process looks rock solid to me as well and pretty much matches what is under my section now which of course, I checked with Indigo 20.
Best,
Jeff and Nyoko

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by AGL »

ZZZZ & BCD, thanks for the responses. Sorry I got my panties in a bunch there. :lol:

It does make you wonder what is best for use if you were say, using your doll for sex everyday. Don't think I'd want to mineral oil that area so often. While the bag idea sounds interesting, I'd be concerned it would react with the TPE over time.

The physical act of removing & reinstalling the insert seems to cause a lot of stress on that area. At least with the mineral oil it slides right in. But it's all soaked in by the next time I remove it, so it takes a lot of stretching to get it out of there. That's when the powdered insert makes more sense, as it's easier to remove.

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by hollows+fentiman »

ZZZZ, I think what you say is probably a good idea! Since the first thread Indigo started for TPE doll care I have used Vaseline as a lubricant. Ashaki is an insert version and I also use a small amount of Vaseline to coat the insert before putting it back and use my 'oily' hands to wipe the outside and crotch area too.

However, I have noticed recently her vagina lips are very soft now and quite possibly over saturated. Although that's a nice 'feeling', I think I may well switch to using water based lube for a while and only use Vaseline occasionally. The idea of Vaseline and babyoil preventing mould growth and 'fluid' absorption was quite appealing at first but once there is a fair quantity there in my opinion you don't want to overdo the usage. I'm going to try the waterbased lube for a while and see if there's any change. I don't actually like it that much as you sometimes have to reapply but if there's already a fair amount of Vaseline there as a base then I think it might be OK. I'll report back if I see any change!

Cheers, Hollows.
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Olivia F1 »

I have one doll and have never owned any others. My doll (2017, who's manufacture we shall not name, lol) TPE blend is Extremely Sticky without a corn starch/talc powdering, untouchable really. The TPE is a dirt magnet. Cleaning with warm soap and water (I use Dr Bronner's liquid soap) will not adequately wash off all the dirt. It is only through the use of a rather heavy slathering of oil and wiping with a microfiber cloth repeatedly that cleans her properly. I have used mineral oil once per month for a year. After I apply the oil, I wait for a few hours to let it soak in, then apply the powder.

I have witnessed that a heavy saturation of oil and or Vaseline, especially in the Vagina area can make the TPE TO Soft and thus susceptible to coming apart or dis formation.

Honestly, the monthly bath and "oil sessions" and then the powdering every month is a time consuming and often viewed as somewhat of a chore.

My next doll needs to be Silicone for this reason, I'm assuming Silicone is easier to clean.

Also, skin that does not require powdering to not be sticky would be nice if that exists.

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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by hollows+fentiman »

Olivia F1, things have moved on a little since August last year but what we have recognised is that every doll has different requirements! Even the same model can be different with each batch in manufacturing!

Certainly, my Ashaki is relatively dry compared to Vivette, who can feel quite tacky if not powdered even though they are both over a year old.

I think the initial main reason for oiling a lady was to ‘replenish’ the oils lost from evaporation over time in some TPE blends. If a lady is oily/tacky to start with, she’s certainly not dry and doesn’t need ‘replenishing’! What I think is happening here is that the oils from the manufacturing process have not been allowed to evaporate naturally and you are just topping up the oily nature of the TPE and blocking natural evaporation. Be careful, as you don’t want to have saturated TPE as that would take a long time to dry properly!

My advice would be to stop oiling her as this could be making the situation worse not better! I don’t oil Vivette at all but keep her powdered and I think she’s slowly getting better.

Cheers, Hollows.
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Re: Important warning about care & feeding of TPE

Post by Arthur1960 »

Olivia F1 wrote:I have one doll and have never owned any others. My doll (2017, who's manufacture we shall not name, lol) TPE blend is Extremely Sticky without a corn starch/talc powdering, untouchable really. The TPE is a dirt magnet. Cleaning with warm soap and water (I use Dr Bronner's liquid soap) will not adequately wash off all the dirt. It is only through the use of a rather heavy slathering of oil and wiping with a microfiber cloth repeatedly that cleans her properly. I have used mineral oil once per month for a year. After I apply the oil, I wait for a few hours to let it soak in, then apply the powder.

I have witnessed that a heavy saturation of oil and or Vaseline, especially in the Vagina area can make the TPE TO Soft and thus susceptible to coming apart or dis formation.

Honestly, the monthly bath and "oil sessions" and then the powdering every month is a time consuming and often viewed as somewhat of a chore.

My next doll needs to be Silicone for this reason, I'm assuming Silicone is easier to clean.

Also, skin that does not require powdering to not be sticky would be nice if that exists.
Re. Your last point, I would say that, for me at least, it already does exist! During the last half of 2017 I purchased two WM dolls, a 145D and a 158D. Upon arrival it was clear straight out of the box that their tpe was an improved blend, it didn't really feel tacky at all (I have 3 other tpe gals to compare to) yet was very soft and only had the faintest odour. I still did an initial clean but was hesitant to apply any baby oil as I reasoned that if they were not tacky then they were not losing mineral oil which in turn didn't need to be replenished. Keiko, my WM145 has been with me now since last summer, I think that in that time I have cleaned her twice since her initial clean on arrival and the last time I did give her a light baby oil rub and I have to say that once that has soaked in she feels great. I did also give her a very light dusting of powder applied with a brush and I can honestly say that a few weeks after that her skin is lovely, not tacky, certainly not a dirt magnet at all (but I do keep my girls clothed all the time, well nearly all the time). So that experience coupled with the experience of others on here that have had tpe gals (WM/YL/OR) in the past 6 months or so leads me to believe things are getting better. Certainly based on the quality of my last 2 WM gals I wouldn't hesitate in getting another tpe gal once finances allow and as for the 'tpe care regime' when was rubbing baby oil into a gorgeous female body ever a chore!

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