TPE skin tone frenzy

Post by **Dollstudio** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:13 pm

Hi,

a while ago, I posted these side-by-side pictures with Jinshan skin tones:

: jinshan-skin-tones-2016-onwhite.jpg (286.1 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

: jinshan-skin-tones-2016-onblack.jpg (519.53 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

These TPE samples were put on a HP flatbed scanner to allow a more or less neutral color balance.

Descriptions and the current Jinshan skin tone labels are here: http://eu.dollstudio.org/node/3643

In the meantime we have collected more TPE samples from other manufacturers. I digitized the skin tones the same way - sample in transparent plastic bed, then scanned with the same HP flatbed scanner. I hope that allows direct comparisons to some degree.

DH168 [2016/2017] - samples from 2017:

: dh168-2016-onwhite.jpg (310.85 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

: dh168-2016-onblack.jpg (492.31 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

Above: TPE samples with the old DH168 TPE blend (firm) which was used in 2016 and partially in 2017.

DH168 EVO [2016/2017] - samples from 2017:

: dh168-evo-2017-onwhite.jpg (281.62 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

: dh168-evo-2017-onblack.jpg (426.26 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

Above: TPE samples with the current DH168 'EVO' TPE blend. This TPE is quite different from the old DH168 TPE blend.

We do not know if this is the same TPE blend used in DH168 non-EVO models, too. These come with a much softer TPE blend than last year.

Doll Forever [2016/2017] and Doll Forever [2017] - samples from 2017:

: d4e-2017-onwhite.jpg (340.33 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

: d4e-2017-onblack.jpg (437.28 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

Above: This was a major surprise. There is an old Doll Forever TPE blend (very soft), and a current Doll Forever TPE blend (more firm). The current Doll Forever TPE blend is similar to DH168 EVO blend, but not identical.

6Ye - sample from 2017:

: 6ye-2017-onwhite.jpg (305.02 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

: 6ye-2017-onblack.jpg (361.84 KiB) Viewed 5177 times

Above: Current 6Ye TPE, cut out from an insert. I don't know if 6Ye Global has other skin tones as well - probably yes - and if the insert has the same color as their dolls. Jinshan inserts come in a different color which does not match any existing skin tone.

Now wee need to figure out a labeling scheme for the different TPE blends shipped at different times…

Your head hurts? Yes, mine too.

Sandro

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 2:20 pm

Hi Sandro! Excellent comparisons as before! However, one thing I was told last year when I first started looking for a full sized doll is that I should always buy an extra head at the same time as blends/colours can vary slightly from batch to batch of dolls being produced! As you get your dolls in for customers have you noticed any slight changes in the same mfrs or supposedly identical dolls?

Cheers, Hollows.

Post by **Dollstudio** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:02 pm

hollows+fentiman wrote:[…] have you noticed any slight changes in the same mfrs or supposedly identical dolls?

Yes, there can be a color shift in the skin tone; we have multiple posts about this, e.g. http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p1088948.

Also, deviations are not limited to skin tones. Some popular dolls have multiple molds which seem to be not absolutely identical (e.g. WM-140).

I think it would be a bit too far fetched to call our ladies to be true 'Ooaks' (one of a kind), but sometimes it feels a bit just like that.

See also nukeno's comment over here: http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=227&t=94285. They are not organic individuals, but they are not industrial products from an assembly line, either. The closest metaphor for them is (imho) to be 'like a manual photo print from the photo lab': They can be duplicated, like photographs from a photographic negative, but their actual outcome is somehow unique - like a manual print.

Sandro

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 3:36 pm

Thanks Sandro, sorry I missed those posts! To a certain extent, it is nice to know that each Doll could be an ‘individual’ but I suppose if the colour balance between head and body isn’t the same that could be devastating for the new owner! Thank you for keeping up with this work and keeping the manufacturers on their toes!

Cheers, Hollows.

DexterQuest · Post by **DexterQuest** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:59 pm

Thank you for your skin tone photo collection.

Dollstudio wrote: Yes, there can be a color shift in the skin tone; we have multiple posts about this, e.g. http://dollforum.com/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 8#p1088948.

Also, deviations are not limited to skin tones. Some popular dolls have multiple molds which seem to be not absolutely identical (e.g. WM-140).

I learned the hard way how different "tan" could be with WM dolls. My first doll was a pleasant tan. The second doll ended up being a super dark tan. I custom ordered a 3rd doll with "medium" skin tone and it was perfect. I wanted all dolls going forward with this skin. I ordered WM dolls 4 & 5 with the "medium" skin and the factory photos look good. (Won't know for sure until in hand.) I ordered an exclusive WM head from another vendor and gave them a good photo of my doll to match.

I urge for vendors to push for a consistent color palette at least within the same manufacture and for vendors to offer all those colors on the website. Half the vendors only offer 4 colors and there needs to be a standard 9. White | "Natural" | Pink | Honey | Medium | Tan | Dark Tan | Cocoa | Chocolate.
WM doesn't have Honey as an option on any website, but I think some people would like that.

That is too bad to hear about the non-identical molds ... this confirms what I've been wondering with the WM-168/A. When I ordered this model, only the African American photos of this doll existed. She has a killer body like a comic book character, but just wanted her in the medium skin. And that was my 3rd doll. Totally perfect body (but I made bad head choices). But now I see model shots of this doll in natural skin tones and she looks super awkward because the boobs are really different. The boobs from the old photos are perky and the boobs from the new photos are slightly saggy. It makes the doll go from 19 years old to 45 years old in my opinion. Good news for older lady fans, but would be devastating if the expectation did not match either way.

Post by **Dollstudio** » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:49 am

Hi,

some more fun stuff from Indigo… he got more material for the TPE repair kit.

A while ago he believed to have spotted a 8th skin tone from Jinshan. I told him that it's probably just another deviation. Nobody lists eight Jinshan skin colors, and I can not order the mystery skin tone anyway (yes, I have a sample).

So we tried to ignore the the mountain was on the move.

And now we got this:

: jinshan-dark-tan.jpeg (12.38 KiB) Viewed 4846 times

From LTR: "Original" dark tan - "dark tan" style as of July 2017 - dark tan as of yesterday (March 2018).

Great. Am I getting color blind? Do I need to see a doctor?

But I have more:

: jinshan-nava-black.jpeg (13.84 KiB) Viewed 4846 times

From LTR: "Nava Black" as of… before and "Nava Black" as of… now.

We are currently designing white Jinshan fan shirts. Guess what color they will not have…

Sandro

P.S. Images courtesy of Indigo. He is now welcoming any donations of larger amounts of tranquilizers…

Post by **Dollstudio** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 3:35 pm

Hi,

as mentioned a while ago, SY Doll now offers 7 skin colors. Those are the factory depictions:

: sy-skin-tones-2018.jpg (267.35 KiB) Viewed 4713 times

Now we got skin tone samples. Maybe because 7 is so close to 8, we got 8 samples:

: Karton.jpg (764.15 KiB) Viewed 4713 times

Yeah. Unlabeled samples.

: Farben SY Doll.jpg (415.8 KiB) Viewed 4713 times

Above are the 8 skin tone samples. The challenge is now to match these samples with the factory photos above.

Is Ethan Hunt around? I guess that's another "Mission: Impossible"…

Sandro

nukeno · Post by **nukeno** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:58 pm

Dollstudio wrote:From LTR: "Original" dark tan - "dark tan" style as of July 2017 - dark tan as of yesterday (March 2018).
From LTR: "Nava Black" as of… before and "Nava Black" as of… now.

I'm happy how my "Nava black" Mamamba turned out, judging from the pics you've sent me,
although but also because she doesn't appear to be as black as in your newest sample.
Maybe there is no real consistency and colors and quality just change batch by batch more or less "slightly",
depending on what worker is mixing the blend that day...

teddykan1 · Post by **teddykan1** » Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:24 pm

Looks like a meat counter!

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:19 am

nukeno wrote:
Dollstudio wrote:From LTR: "Original" dark tan - "dark tan" style as of July 2017 - dark tan as of yesterday (March 2018).
From LTR: "Nava Black" as of… before and "Nava Black" as of… now.
I'm happy how my "Nava black" Mamamba turned out, judging from the pics you've sent me,
although but also because she doesn't appear to be as black as in your newest sample.
Maybe there is no real consistency and colors and quality just change batch by batch more or less "slightly",
depending on what worker is mixing the blend that day...

Yeah, I don’t think I’d like my Ashaki to be as black as the latest models seem to show so it would be good if the two ‘black’ colours are an option rather than just black ‘black’! There’s quite a jump from ‘tan’ so if you want an ethnic look the dark brown ‘black’ is very close to many natural ladies’ looks, whereas the black ‘black’ is quite selective!

Great work yet again Sandro!

As for Indigo’s repair kits, they seem to use actual TPE chips to create the right colouring. The factories that create the TPE colour add colour to their basic TPE I presume. Would it be possible for you and Indigo to get the colouring compound so you can mix your own paste to the various doll colours from the basic ‘pale’ or is this a stupid question?

Cheers, Hollows.

j35j35 · Post by **j35j35** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 5:00 am

OK, we see, can you make any shade of skin dolls?
We are interested in the question. What substance do you use to give different skin tones? What is the name of the substance and how does it affect the person?

Post by **Dollstudio** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:07 am

hollows+fentiman wrote:The factories that create the TPE colour add colour to their basic TPE I presume. Would it be possible for you and Indigo to get the colouring compound so you can mix your own paste to the various doll colours from the basic ‘pale’ […]

Making the factories disclose the color recipe and the ingredients is about as realistic as Russia joining the NATO, or the British government allowing Scotland to segregate from the UK, or Apple putting their blueprints into the public domain.

Except for this, yes, knowing the color recipe would solve a lot of problems, including skin tone matching for hybrid dolls, and it would make Indigo pretty happy.

Sandro

hollows+fentiman · Post by **hollows+fentiman** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:54 am

Yeah, I thought as much!

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:26 pm

I just received some Jinshan TPE samples in late March from a vendor here at TDF for purposes of paint matching for eyelids, so they are pretty current.
I was going by this 7 color pallet for the naming. Have they changed this already?

: WM skin tones-full.jpg (93.79 KiB) Viewed 4581 times

The samples were unlabeled so I'm just guessing at the names. I think these came from YL.
I only received 6 samples - the lightest appears to be the fair and the darkest must be the Nava black I'm guessing?

: IMG_4496.JPG (276.65 KiB) Viewed 4581 times

Not sure if this would be of value to anyone, but I was able to find some pretty close paint matches at Home Depot.
These color codes are for the Behr paint. I didn't get a TPE sample for the "cocoa" so I used my JY head which appears to be close. I think it's the JY "tan".

: IMG_4497.JPG (467.45 KiB) Viewed 4581 times

Post by **Dollstudio** » Mon Apr 23, 2018 4:25 pm

Dollstudio wrote:[…] as mentioned a while ago, SY Doll now offers 7 skin colors. Those are the factory depictions:

The attachment sy-skin-tones-2018.jpg is no longer available

…and here is Indigo's attempt to assign the samples to SY Doll's skin tones:

: sy-skin-colors-1.jpg (298.1 KiB) Viewed 4313 times

: sy-skin-colors-2.jpg (412.52 KiB) Viewed 4313 times

: sy-skin-colors-3.jpg (286.09 KiB) Viewed 4313 times

: sy-skin-colors-4.jpg (448.35 KiB) Viewed 4313 times

Could be like this, however there is no way to make sure that these assignments are correct as long as we do not have a reference. Please keep that in mind in case you decide for a skin color based on these scans.

Assignment of samples to labels without reference is the 1st level of uncertainty. This is a bit like picking mushrooms blindfolded.

The 2nd level of uncertainty is manufacturing consistency - at the moment we just don't know if SY Doll will consistently keep these colors, or if there will be a color shift, like at Jinshan. This is like picking mushrooms in a different geographical region which appear to look familiar.

In the next post I will enter the 3rd level of uncertainty - compare skin color samples from different manufacturers to determine possible compatibilities. This will be like trying to cook a meal with a mixture of canned food from both Qo'noS and Vulcan without speaking either language.

Sandro