The Doll Forum

My point was is that "Money" is not everything. In the West we are driven by a culture of greed. Oh look, he's got a Rolls Royce; She's got a porche; he's got a Lambougini; she's got a Ferrari.

SO WHAT. do you think because these people have got expensive cars they've got a lot of money. CRAP....they're probably most of them up to thier ears in debt.

I have NO debts. No credit card that I owe money to. I drive a Fiat Punto Speedgear 1.2 and I'm really happy with it. Yes I've owned Realdolls. Mechadolls. 4Woods dolls, but you know what, my favorite is a Teddy-Babe. Look at all the members who have inflatable dolls. If that's all they can afford, why make them second class members.

It doesn't take money to make you happy, it's a state of mind. When I look at all these people driving down the road with thier expensive cars, I don't feel ANY envy. I just think what have you got to do in life to pay for all this.

So to finalise, if TDF makes this a paying forum, I'm gone and I'm sure a lot of other members will also leave. I repeat, you wanna pay for a shreck avatar or a daffodil avatar, so what. Does that make you more special, not to me. I don't care what you're avatar is, it's the contents of your posts that count.

zazakell

zazakell wrote:My point was is that "Money" is not everything.

And the whole reason why I said I would pay in the first place, was because when customized titles came up, money did then as well. I thought that if I was willing to pay, it'd be a ...



... to GET WHAT I WANT then.

It doesn't take money to make you happy,

Not all the time, yes, but it most certainly can. Money can buy happiness: http://www.reasonpapers.com/pdf/26/rp_26_1.pdf

So to finalise, if TDF makes this a paying forum, I'm gone and I'm sure a lot of other members will also leave.

This has nothing to even do with being a "pay forum". You would only pay if you want a special customized title/image, if that's what is decided upon, or not.

I repeat, you wanna pay for a shreck avatar or a daffodil avatar, so what. Does that make you more special, not to me. I don't care what you're avatar is, it's the contents of your posts that count.

Right. I'm not looking to be special, I'm looking to get what I want, to uproot the whole "Doll Guru" title and banner, and plant in it's place a pretty daffodil/narcissus with "N. poeticus" titled above it. I only want it because it would look nice and is meaningful to me.

In conclusion, to Management:
If it is ruled that there will be no customization of titles, then please at least consider changing the titling that is in existence if it cannot be turned off, then. Esp. Doll Guru and Doll God. Thank you.

Hi narcissus,

the link that you posted was by a woman at the University of TEXAS. Do you really think that this sort of paper is proof of the value of money.

I've lived in many poor countries, so the value of money is relative to the level of the quality of life in those countries. Ex: you live in an African country, you have a small house with a tin roof and a small car, you're considered rich.

The same thing in the developed Western world, you're poor.

In the USA, I believe if you live in a trailor park, you're considered poor. In the UK if you live in a Trailor park (we call it caravan park) you're considered to be wealthy and you can afford a second holiday home.

In the UK if you live in a mobile home conglemerate, you're considered wealthy and retired.

So it's all relative isn't it.

Wealth, or money, I maintain, has nothing to do with happiness.

Maybe we can just agree to a difference of opinion. BTW I hope you get your narcissus.

zazakell

zazakell wrote:Hi narcissus,

the link that you posted was by a woman at the University of TEXAS.

Yes, she also holds a Ph.D and is an Objectivist. But what matters is the content of that paper, not other "papers" she has.

Do you really think that this sort of paper is proof of the value of money.

The value that money, or any other tool of exchange, can bring one. Money, as a tool of exchange, for working hard at the hospital, I can then use to purchase things that can make me happy, can bring pleasure to me, can make me understand things more, like books, etc..

In the USA, I believe if you live in a trailor park, you're considered poor.

Not necessarily in the USA at least, I think it's based upon income. A rich wealthy man can live in a trailor if he wishes. So being poor I guess would be based upon earned income/independent wealth/investments/accounts, etc. rather than the place in which you live. And of course the context of the country in which one lives determines how poor, how rich one is relative to others, standard of living, in that country.

Wealth, or money, I maintain, has nothing to do with happiness.

I am maintain firmly that it CAN. It doesn't ALWAYS though, just that it CAN.

Maybe we can just agree to a difference of opinion.

And this is how just about every kind of discussion like this leads to eventually with me and others here on this forum. But it's cool. We are in disagreement, and continue to be, so that is that then.

BTW I hope you get your narcissus.

Thank, man! f80man does as well. So that makes two besides myself.

Now I have some numbers besides myself at least!!

Ok, I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I do love a good debate. Anyway, I agree with zazakell in that money in and of itself has no value. Coins, paper money, bone bits and salt have been used as currency in the past, but only have as much value as we give them. Paper money and coins are silly in my opinion because they are only valuable because they represent something else that has value (gold, and even its value is "given" to it and not inherent).

I also don't believe that money can make you happy. It offers a diversion at best. Any man/woman that has piles of money and things will not be happy once they get bored with them. Even if they don't get bored with them they eventually realize how hollow their life is without more substantial things like friendship, love, family, and for some religion.

I personally think that the best system is bartering. That way everyone is productive and you don't have a few people amassing tons of 'worthless money' and using it to buy tangible things that someone else made. I make chairs and cabinets, you make beds, we trade. Simple.

Incognito wrote:
I personally think that the best system is bartering. That way everyone is productive and you don't have a few people amassing tons of 'worthless money' and using it to buy tangible things that someone else made. I make chairs and cabinets, you make beds, we trade. Simple.

Yes, Incognito we have some small towns that use the bartering system here in the UK. Seems to work. Now our V.A.T. (purchase tax) has increased to 20% for all purchases and services , except food, childrens clothes, magazines and books, I think we'll see a growth in the bartering system because you don't have to pay any TAX except when you have to buy the initial materials, but you don't have to make your customers pay it AGAIN when you barter . Certain things like fresh produce or a wine or beer maker doesn't have to pay any tax. There are lot's of stuff you can produce without paying any original tax. Bread, pastries, jellos (jams) honey, cheese, yoghurts, etc, etc.

I remember when I was at school making a tea trolley with wheels that my parents used for years. Also metalwork I used to work, then it again it was practical and I got tremendous pride of using raw materials and producing some thing practical and useful out of them.

If you can make a deal with a person who owns forestry. Wood would cost you nothing, plus you'd do him a favour by keeping his forest in good conditions. I could go on and on, but it's really turning time back and a lot of people are not prepared to do it. It takes a special dedication.
There are communities of youngsters springing up and making thier own eco-friendly houses, learning traditional skills. How many people can make a wicker fence? Farmers need them.
As I said, I could go on and on. If I had my full health, I'd join them, although I can teach some French if they fancy learning it. Us old guys and gals have a lot of knowledge stored up that we can pass on.

zazakell

P.S. Sorry to get off topic a bit, but it started about money buying a certain member title or avatar. You're now welcome to get back on thread. Is it worth spending money to get special member status?

I say a very firm NO.

Again, I have to agree with you. If people could buy special ranks then they really aren't that special are they? There would be not real effort involved in getting it, no time period to wait, no amount of posting/contribution. The only reason that others wouldn't have the "special" status is because they simply didn't want to spend the money for it (or were smart enough to spend it on something more worthwhile IMO). Saying "yeah, I am one of the few that have this "special status", but only because no one else wanted to pay for it" really screams exclusivity doesn't it? In the real world having something simply because no one else wants it can start trends, but that is why trends are stupid and only serve to put a spotlight on the weak mindedness of the masses.

Think of special ranks as custom license plates. They are special to the ones that want them

Also on the subject of what money can buy? They way I have had it put to me and I agree from first hand experience...

"When one fails to meet their basic needs, life is hell. But after you meet your basic needs, the amount of money you make affects only the type of house and car you have, the amount of entertaining you host, and the number of toys you have to play with."

Cheers,
Midiman

Money is simply a tool of exchange. You do work for someone, they pay you - in flour, cattle, gold, whatever - it's a tool of exchange, it's what you agree to get in exchange for doing that work for an employer, etc. It gives one purchasing power to get things that can sustain ones life and contribute to their happiness. It's based upon a trader principle, it certainly is in Objectivism, except they aren't for paper currency, since it's value can be manipulated (inflation, whatnot) more than one on the gold standard, for example, in our society.

Can we now just focus on whether or not customization is going to be or should be available for us on the forum, more than discussing money, as such?

I say the highest rank at 100,000 should be (drum roll please)................ Techno Guy or Girl!

Crazyjose wrote:I say the highest rank at 100,000 should be (drum roll please)................ Techno Guy or Girl!

I would call it ( Do nothing else Dork)

midiman wrote:Think of special ranks as custom license plates. They are special to the ones that want them

Also on the subject of what money can buy? They way I have had it put to me and I agree from first hand experience...

"When one fails to meet their basic needs, life is hell. But after you meet your basic needs, the amount of money you make affects only the type of house and car you have, the amount of entertaining you host, and the number of toys you have to play with."

Cheers,
Midiman

In this country you have to buy custom licence plates and there's quite a big trade in them. BTW, they're also called "Vanity plates". IMHO it just shows snobbery value. I'm different...I'm showing off. I've got more money than you, nya, nya. To me, they are victims of this consumer society.
As I mentioned before, if you've got more money than sense, spend it on this useless piece of one upmanship. Does having a custom licence plate make you a special PERSON?
To me, it's a badge that you're pinning on yourself to show the world exactly what sort of person you are.

In my opinion, the nicest, most honest, most honorable people don't need any outward signs of wealth.
Does Bill Gates have a custom licence plate? I don't know? Do you know how much money that guy gives away in charitable work. I know that Steve Jobs, (co-founder of Apple), doesn't have one. Look at all the philanthropists; see how rich they are. Do they have custom licence plates? They don't need them. They're sure in themselves and use thier wealth for good.

In my opinion, it's the wanna be rich people, those that want to give the impression of being wealthy who buy custom licence plates.

But after you meet your basic needs, the amount of money you make affects only the type of house and car you have, the amount of entertaining you host, and the number of toys you have to play with."

So my point is midi. You can spend all this money on a house and toys and entertaining and a big car,(possibly with a custom licence plate??) but by you own admission you can't afford to go to the Vegas meet!

I can, because although I'm retired, I live a simple life. All the sailing boats I've owned in my life were not expensive toys, but I could afford them and I loved sailing. They didn't sit rotting in expensive marinas as symbols of my wealth. I used them to visit many countries and made many good friends.
Most real sailors know the difference between floating gin palaces,(rich mans toys; symbols of wealth) and REAL sailing boats. Now I can't go sailing any more, I have no sailing boat. I could afford to go the Vegas meet, but I chose not to. Do I make my point!

Last point. I bet Bill doesn't have a custom licence plate. Anybody wanna take bets that he does?

zazakell

zazakell wrote:In this country you have to buy custom licence plates and there's quite a big trade in them. BTW, they're also called "Vanity plates". IMHO it just shows snobbery value. I'm different...I'm showing off. I've got more money than you, nya, nya. To me, they are victims of this consumer society.

I disagree in that they wouldn't be "victims of a consumer society" they would be victims of their own low self-esteem, self-worth, in order to gain some value of themselves, they show something they have off, essentially saying I am better than you, or those that cannot afford to do so, I can, kind of thing. It's flaunting it. I see this done sometimes when I used to watch TV, like in certain music videos, they are very explicit about showing off gold, diamonds, pouring bottles of Crystal out, just to show that they can afford to. But showing off like that, when you grew up poor as fuck, is kind of like a tribute to how far you've come, just if it's rubbing it in others faces, that's a superior/inferior thing going on there, not self-esteem. It's ENTIRELY contextual. People might buy vanity plates because they think it's cute, or whatever, not necessarily "to show off". This is done with anything that is bought, clothing, whatever, it all depends on how the person is carrying themselves, etc. Are they buying designer jeans, because they like them, the fit, style, or are they doing it to conform/show off, etc. As I said, contextual. When I buy nice things for my dolls, I'm not showing off, if I'm showing anything, it's how much I value them for who they are and what they mean to me in my life. I actually shouldn't be spending any money, I actually, in all honesty, cannot afford any of this, ANY OF THIS, without working many many hours of overtime a month. I work HARD, DAMN HARD, and I love spending that money on my loved ones.

In my opinion, the nicest, most honest, most honorable people don't need any outward signs of wealth.
Does Bill Gates have a custom licence plate? I don't know? Do you know how much money that guy gives away in charitable work. I know that Steve Jobs, (co-founder of Apple), doesn't have one. Look at all the philanthropists; see how rich they are. Do they have custom licence plates? They don't need them. They're sure in themselves and use thier wealth for good.

I wonder how many of those that give like that, do it out of guilt/for appearances, because, say, some people make them feel guilty for being successful businessmen, etc. or if they do it out of their own heart.

In my opinion, it's the wanna be rich people, those that want to give the impression of being wealthy who buy custom licence plates.

Is this the case with me trying to do whatever I can within my power to get that banner and name off of my profile? NO. I am not showing off, trying to give any impression that I am wealthy, I simply wanted to be named properly (or for it just to be taken OFF), not given a title based solely upon post counts, and not upon post content.

How in the hell did this topic go to being an attack on money, and those that have, and how they spend it, I don't know. I am not rich at all, nor pretend to be. I am a janitor for crying out loud. The voice of reason didn't work, money doesn't talk, so I have nothing left, but to have that glaring banner on my profile and a name that I should not have, it is misleading, simply from post #'s. It gives an unearned air of authority in things Doll.

Can we please get back on topic?

I think its funny that you addressed all of those things and then follow it up with "Can we please get back on topic?" Maybe I'll start a separate topic concerning consumerism in the US and the developed world as a whole.

Going back to the ranks I don't think that any of the ranks should portray an idea of doll knowledge since one doesn't even need a doll to post here. If I, for instance, had 10,000 posts and had "Doll Guru" or "Doll God" at the top of my avatar it would be quite misleading because I don't yet own a doll. I do know a good bit from my time here, but I have no firsthand knowledge. Maybe if we keep the ranks devoid of those types of misleading terms more people will be happy. As stated before I think the gap in post counts before reaching the higher ranks is a large one. I think that adding one or two to fill the gap (between 500 and 1000, or 1000 and 2000.....I forget the exact numbers) will be good.

I'm sure that some here wouldn't be happy with that because they spend so much time here, but you can't please everybody.

Incognito wrote:I think its funny that you addressed all of those things and then follow it up with "Can we please get back on topic"

I don't find it funny that I did that, he posted that stuff after I asked if we could get back to topic, so I replied, and I asked again.

Going back to the ranks I don't think that any of the ranks should portray an idea of doll knowledge since one doesn't even need a doll to post here. If I, for instance, had 10,000 posts and had "Doll Guru" or "Doll God" at the top of my avatar it would be quite misleading because I don't yet own a doll. I do know a good bit from my time here, but I have no firsthand knowledge. Maybe if we keep the ranks devoid of those types of misleading terms more people will be happy.

There you go. Thank you. That's what this has all BEEN about. I've said it repeatedly, what I've been calling "the voice of reason" here in this, and hopefully a descision will be reached amoung staff soon about it. How about just leaving all set at: member and ex-member.