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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:59 pm 
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Thanks for the update Phil. I'm glad this worked in your favor. Part of the issue is the law makers are not experts when it comes to psychology and sociology so they end up doing more harm then good. As Arthur points out there is little research published in this area which is also a challenge when it comes to understanding; e-hem, that's why it's important to support those doing legitimate research in this area, cough-cough.

These are important times we are experiencing. Sex doll/robots and the attention they are getting are redefining sex and sexuality quite literally. This is a good thing but we're going to have to be prepared to defend our territory for the good of all.

Thank you for taking one for the team Phil. I'm here for you if you need anything.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:01 pm 
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I think the government agencies are trying to protect the kids. The laws interpretation by individuals can lead to innocent people being targeted, arrested & liberty taken away. Some of these small dolls with even larger breasts can have young appearing heads. I have seen full sized dolls that look to young for my taste. Does that mean they are illegal, the people who make, sell & buy guilty of more heinous crimes, no, not in all cases. But if the standard norm of a country its community standards put in place are generally reaction based to new tech, behaviors profiled and so on. Many foreign countries society norms vary greatly. When i was in the Navy i traveled the world. France for example twice a day many of the shops, stores etc would close for a few hrs. I saw quite a few females close to the beach who would leave the shop remove their tops on the way to the beach for some sun. Try that in most US cities. They also had nudity on regular TV, even in the commercials. If its to stop those that prey on kids & to protect kids then i am all for it. If its to push someones taste values on a otherwise adult age doll then that's infringement upon a innocent person. As dolls become more available & purchased by communities not familiar with them, the problems real or not will need a learning curve learned by all.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 2:18 am 
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Sure, as For Australia, ABF (Australian Boarder Force - our renamed customs) will confiscate any doll (irrespective of height) that thet claim a reasonable person would consider as child like and ergo, classified as "objectionable material" under regulation 4A of the Customs (Prohibited Imports) Regulations 1956.

"Objectionable goods include material that describes, depicts, expresses or otherwise deals with matters of sex, drug misuse or addiction, crime, cruelty, violence or revolting or abhorrent phenomena in a way that would offend a reasonable adult. It also includes goods that depict children under 18 years of age in a way that would offend a reasonable adult, promote crime or violence, promote drug misuse, or advocate the doing of a terrorist act.

The determination of whether goods are objectionable will take into account the overall context of the presentation of the goods in addition to certain specific characteristics. In relation to dolls manufactured for a sexual purpose, if the doll appears to be a depiction of a child under 18 years of age, the doll is considered to be objectionable and prohibited under regulations 3 and 4A. Any accessories and instructional or descriptive material (including the marketing of the product) accompanying the doll will be taken into consideration when the age depiction of the doll is determined.

In strictly limited circumstances, the Director of the Classification Board may grant permission to import or export (import or export permit) objectionable goods. Personal use or entertainment is generally not sufficient grounds for granting a permit.

Penalties may apply to the importation and exportation of objectionable goods. Where the goods are considered to be commercial importations or exportation of child pornography or child abuse material, more serious penalties apply including significant fines and/or imprisonment."


Legislation is here https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2016C00795

So downunder, while there is a image notated database of dolls and makers, of Known Brands, well, that says it all really, not even I know all the knock offs, and I been digging at the cliff face for years folks.

Generally speaking, the majority of holds, is for extortion of perceived duties owed, as ABF loves using the bullshit customs estimation of value rather than the legit paperwork free on board value acceptance, since the import of goods GST laws were changed in 01 Jul 18, to make almost everything subject to taxation, no low value exemptions remain. I just fought this one, and while I won, their was a cost, my dolly was damaged out of mishandling spite.
So I am doing them for that as well. My lawyer loves the AU gov agencies, He is like, "these clowns just paid of my Porsche!"

That said, I personally would not import a flat chested doll under 145 cm any longer,especially as she is going to have a doll face, and these tyrants, get doll face and baby face confused, as with robotics, mechatronics, and /or face app, dollies can not change expression to show maturity, so if you want a mini, ensure she is stacked and mature looking in both body and face.

Sure unfair, but that is how it is downunder, so no point me telling you otherwise, Import a YLD at your own risk, as even you can no longer just hope she will sneak through, as they now hold and inspect everything for valuation and duties, (not just random Ob Mat assessments) and if dolly looks young, she is a goner!

Anung :idea:



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:42 am 
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None of this is surprising at all. Law enforcement agencies aren't the least bit interested in sex toys as a whole, they're more interested in easy to document red flags for actual crimes. Sex toys that resemble the size and shape of an actual immature human is going to get the attention or a lot of people for different reasons, sometimes by actual predators. There's plenty of published stories where the seized doll makes the headlines, but the crime being prosecuted is for media distribution and/or possession. In many of these cases, the doll is the prompt for investigation. Some doll vendors are being strongly urged to keep records of sales, document IPs, etc..... it's been happening for awhile. Sometimes, some IPs will make it onto a 'watch list' that are monitored more heavily than others, VPNs and such don't prevent this monitoring by government agencies. Most websites that require registration for use document IPs, including TDF and anywhere funds are exchanged. More often that not, it's to monitor usage, guard against hacking and to gauge future needs of data routing. It wouldn't be surprising if that's an issue that would be discussed at a future meeting.There is no reason for anyone to panic, unless you live in a Muslim country, it's very unlikely a doll or mannequin that has sculpted anatomy is going to be banned, purely for possession, regardless of it's marketing or suggested use. The best hope for the future is for domestic manufacturing to begin to cater to local markets, and avoid imports all together. There is no one stopping anyone from manufacturing their own domestically available products, it would just require going back to basics, an artist and someone handle the business side, that's how this modern era began for Dutch Wives/ Love Dolls in the first place.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:05 am 
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Jeff wrote:
Dutch Wives/ Love Dolls

Being Dutch, I hadn't heard that expression before :lol:

Thank you for making my day.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:37 am 
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The-Doll-House NL wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Dutch Wives/ Love Dolls

Being Dutch, I hadn't heard that expression before :lol:

Thank you for making my day.


Love dolls are a dutch invention, VOC history.

HistoryEdit

Some of the first sex dolls were invented by Dutch sailors in the seventeenth century who would be isolated at sea during long voyages. These masturbatory dolls, referred to by the French as dame de voyage and by the Spanish as dama de viaje, were made of sewn cloth or old clothes and were a direct predecessor to today's sex dolls. The Dutch sold some of these dolls to Japanese people during the Rangaku period, and the term "Dutch wives" is still sometimes used in Japan to refer to sex dolls



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:52 am 
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Dutch Wives were made by the Japanese for sailors. They favored blonde women with blue or green eyes. Still today, Asian doll makers favor the Western beauty standards in doll making. I will find some old research articles for you later when I have a chance.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 10:55 am 
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I knew we were good for something! :thumbs_up:



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Dutch Wives were made by the Japanese for sailors. They favored blonde women with blue or green eyes. Still today, Asian doll makers favor the Western beauty standards in doll making. I will find some old research articles for you later when I have a chance.

A JOKE- That makes sense because if the sailors themselves were making them there would be no sails on ship's mast for them to catch wind.



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Cleavage is a much better outlook on life than just seeing the cup as only half full approach! I have a sweet tooth for eye candy, too much of it i don't get a cavity, but a certain cavity does get filled! Like Jordan Carver below
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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Boobman wrote:
Jeff wrote:
Dutch Wives were made by the Japanese for sailors. They favored blonde women with blue or green eyes. Still today, Asian doll makers favor the Western beauty standards in doll making. I will find some old research articles for you later when I have a chance.

A JOKE- That makes sense because if the sailors themselves were making them there would be no sails on ship's mast for them to catch wind.

They would have masts, though... :whistle:



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 8:13 pm 
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https://mothership.sg/2017/10/the-dutch ... -sex-doll/
https://www.amsterdo.com/a-dutch-wife-never-cheats/

In short, the 'dutch wife' was simply a body pillow. Over time, sailors would start to dress the body pillow up to look feminine. The Japanese caught onto the trend and began to make them to look a bit more like a person, usually a Western woman. They evolved over time, and often had Western features. Most recently, they became Dakimakura, which are still sold today. They less resemble Western women, but most often have a printed anime character on them. Sometimes, you can currently find then with an onahole as well.

When Matt McMullen began to market his Real Dolls, it was only a matter of time before the Asain market followed. They were the #1 maker of inflatables for years and years before that. It's not uncommon for people to refer to a love doll, no matter the construction, a Dutch wife. Even today, the idea of making them to resemble Western women is still popular. I have always found this odd, since Western women only make up 6% of the world population. China will probably continue to be the largest consumer and maker of love dolls, mostly because years ago, efforts to reduce the female population were greatly successful and continue to be so. Without a love doll, several have no choice but to sleep alone at night.

Fun fact, Matt McMullen never set out to make love dolls, he wanted to make very nice mannequins. It was only after several inquiries to the mannequins having sexual functions that he decided to make a business of selling love dolls.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 9:20 pm 
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Phil,
This is mostly good news, thank you for sharing it with us. It is just a shame that they can't let it go, but perhaps this is an issue power rather than law. They are not admitting they are wrong, not letting you win, and very firmly keeping their bully-boy boots on.
The reviewing of your business and also issuing what are effectively laws is worrying. It is not the NCA's job to make the law, without the usual consultation, debate, scrutiny, and democratic approval. Until there is an Act on the books they should not be making arbitrary decisions not based in evidence.
I wish you the best of luck with your meeting,



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 3:28 am 
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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:05 am 
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Brief interim update:

Still communicating through solicitor to arrange return of equipment etc.
Had to argue with them what exactly had been confiscated for examination, and what had been left at the premises.

Interestingly, the three dolls that were confiscated as 'definitive' child dolls (under 140cm in height) from the premises, are to be returned. I have requested the return of the two dolls that were investigated by HMRC at the border, so we will see what happened regarding those dolls.
I am taking this a proof that the dolls themselves are not the problem!
They searched for evidence of under age media on The-Doll-House technology/equipment, and found nothing, and now they have little/no chance of a prosecution.

So we know what the offence was, they are/were looking for!

I'll keep everyone appraised of what happens at the meeting(s).



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:21 am 
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Thankyou :thumbs_up:
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