The Doll Forum

No rotation is not for me! I need dolls that are expressive for the purpose f photography.

Yes, can fully understand that. That limits her expression of the hands unfortunately.

bob7892 wrote: I am hoping that the new ball joint , on the 6ye skeleton will also improve on this , thus adding to the longevity of our dolls
As for the fingers , the addition off end caps on the finger wires , would go a long way to improving the hands , and would not cost that much to implement .
I am not sure but I think I read some where that 6ye are using thicker wires for the fingers now.
And maybe the addition of wires for the toes might also help

I'm really curious, what you like to say about your new doll Kiriena - especially in comparison with your silicone doll
Finger wires aren't thick like new jinsan wires, but so much easier to bend. Feeling of the hands is great. You'll love them
Toe wires would be nice as well, in particular for the big toe

Thanks Dr. Dillinger for your response. I didn't mean to imply you weren't in favor of progress - I know better. I also appreciate the insight you shared about your 6YE. I've never owned one, but have been camped on their site for awhile, and am now in my research phase to read what owners are saying. Larger diameter wire fingers (more wires spiraled, not solid) is encouraging. I'm all for that even on the hands of small dolls. I think caps on the end of the wires is a brilliant suggestion. At first I pictured metal caps, but just dipping them in liquid rubber like what's found in hardware stores to dip tool handles into, would conform to the wires & feel more natural when holding her hand (probably same as what you were thinking).
Am also a big fan of wires in the toes. I was surprised & disappointed my JY166 muscle doll, as beefy as she was, didn't have any while my petite WM140 does. I found that very odd (it's the small details like wires in toes that make the difference).

Meso wrote:Thanks Dr. Dillinger for your response. I didn't mean to imply you weren't in favor of progress - I know better. I also appreciate the insight you shared about your 6YE. I've never owned one, but have been camped on their site for awhile, and am now in my research phase to read what owners are saying. Larger diameter wire fingers (more wires spiraled, not solid) is encouraging. I'm all for that even on the hands of small dolls. I think caps on the end of the wires is a brilliant suggestion. At first I pictured metal caps, but just dipping them in liquid rubber like what's found in hardware stores to dip tool handles into, would conform to the wires & feel more natural when holding her hand (probably same as what you were thinking).
Am also a big fan of wires in the toes. I was surprised & disappointed my JY166 muscle doll, as beefy as she was, didn't have any while my petite WM140 does. I found that very odd (it's the small details like wires in toes that make the difference).

Dipping the fingers in rubber , sounds like a good idea , but would be awkward and expensive to implement , and would require a separate process , as it is TPE dolls are made from a single injection moulding , Just adding the metal end caps , won't make the fingers feel any more realistic , but It would put an end to all those annoying finger pokes

Doc , Kiriena Is due home on the 19th , so as long a the horrid people at customs don't delay her , I wll be able to do a comparison for you , Is there anything in particular you want me to look at

bob7892 wrote:
Dipping the fingers in rubber , sounds like a good idea , but would be awkward and expensive to implement , and would require a separate process , as it is TPE dolls are made from a single injection moulding , Just adding the metal end caps , won't make the fingers feel any more realistic , but It would put an end to all those annoying finger pokes

Dipping the 'fingers' in rubber .. I think they're referring to dipping the finger WIRES in
rubber. That would be very inexpensive and done after the welding stage, but before
any molding is done.
Probably be less expensive to buy plastic caps, though. They're often sold to protect
the threads on the end of bolts. I forget how much they are, but it wouldn't surprise
me if it is only a few dollars for a gross.

Mark Spencer wrote:

bob7892 wrote:
Dipping the fingers in rubber , sounds like a good idea , but would be awkward and expensive to implement , and would require a separate process , as it is TPE dolls are made from a single injection moulding , Just adding the metal end caps , won't make the fingers feel any more realistic , but It would put an end to all those annoying finger pokes

Dipping the 'fingers' in rubber .. I think they're referring to dipping the finger WIRES in
rubber. That would be very inexpensive and done after the welding stage, but before
any molding is done.
Probably be less expensive to buy plastic caps, though. They're often sold to protect
the threads on the end of bolts. I forget how much they are, but it wouldn't surprise
me if it is only a few dollars for a gross.

That might work for silicone dolls as they are cured by an agent , and don't require heat to cure .
TPE is a thermoplastic and is either injection or blow moulded at high temps in excess of 140 degrees , so plastic and rubber would melt in the molds

bob7892 wrote:
That might work for silicone dolls as they are cured by an agent , and don't require heat to cure .
TPE is a thermoplastic and is either injection or blow moulded at high temps in excess of 140 degrees , so plastic and rubber would melt in the molds

Not necessarily.. you just want a material with a higher deflection temperature.
I'm sure there's a lot of choices..

Besides, blow molding or injection molding use high temps to melt the TPE.
By the time it reaches the mold surface, the temp is lower. Otherwise it would
run down the mold, and then they might just as well pour it instead.
It's a balancing act, but I don't think temp is an issue for the plastic tips.

Had my science head on again today and have been investigating Injection moulding techniques .
I was surprised to find out that the system uses a compression screw to generate the heat needed to liquefy the The TPE
I have also learnt that when the TPE has melted it is injected into the mold , this process takes a matter of seconds , and the TPE is in a hot liquid state , the air in the mould is pushed out though exclusion vents , that are finer than a human hair , as the TPE is still in a viscous state , this prevents The TPE from exiting the mold .
There is also an exit point that allows excess TPE to leave the mold .
Plastics also have a poor transmission of heat , so they remain hot for quiet some time , I am not sure which method TPE doll producers use to cool their moulds , they can be left to cool on there own or A system of channels is incorporated into the mould , through which a cooling agent is pumped .

There is a process were a harder plastic is pre moulded and placed into the final Mould , then a softer plastic is injected around it to form the finished product , soft touch computer keys being a good example .

So here's my Idea
PUT the doll skeleton in mould one , this can be shaped to form a rubber core simulating bone or mussel shapes , then once cooled place the skeleton into the second mould and inject the softer TPE to form the final product .

This would give the appearance of an ultra realistic body , but would be expensive to produce , and may also add to the weight of the doll .

And the whole idea came from the lack of ivory to make billiard balls
Option two ,
Using blow moulded techniques to form a hollow jointed skeleton structure , kind of like using a hollow barbie doll , covered with TPE , this would reduce weight ,as the doll core would be hollow , and negate the use of a solid skeleton , this would be really expensive as you would require a separate mold for each part of the doll . The technology to do this is readily available and may be the future of doll production

bob7892 wrote:Had my science head on again today and have been investigating Injection moulding techniques .
I was surprised to find out that the system uses a compression screw to generate the heat needed to liquefy the The TPE
I have also learnt that when the TPE has melted it is injected into the mold , this process takes a matter of seconds , and the TPE is in a hot liquid state , the air in the mould is pushed out though exclusion vents , that are finer than a human hair , as the TPE is still in a viscous state , this prevents The TPE from exiting the mold .
There is also an exit point that allows excess TPE to leave the mold .
Plastics also have a poor transmission of heat , so they remain hot for quiet some time , I am not sure which method TPE doll producers use to cool their moulds , they can be left to cool on there own or A system of channels is incorporated into the mould , through which a cooling agent is pumped .

There is a process were a harder plastic is pre moulded and placed into the final Mould , then a softer plastic is injected around it to form the finished product , soft touch computer keys being a good example .

So here's my Idea
PUT the doll skeleton in mould one , this can be shaped to form a rubber core simulating bone or mussel shapes , then once cooled place the skeleton into the second mould and inject the softer TPE to form the final product .
This would give the appearance of an ultra realistic body , but would be expensive to produce , and may also add to the weight of the doll .

And the whole idea came from the lack of ivory to make billiard balls

http://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 87&t=86806
http://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtopi ... 8&start=15

bob7892 wrote:Had my science head on again today and have been investigating Injection moulding techniques .
I was surprised to find out that the system uses a compression screw to generate the heat needed to liquefy the The TPE
I have also learnt that when the TPE has melted it is injected into the mold , this process takes a matter of seconds , and the TPE is in a hot liquid state , the air in the mould is pushed out though exclusion vents , that are finer than a human hair , as the TPE is still in a viscous state , this prevents The TPE from exiting the mold .
There is also an exit point that allows excess TPE to leave the mold .
Plastics also have a poor transmission of heat , so they remain hot for quiet some time , I am not sure which method TPE doll producers use to cool their moulds , they can be left to cool on there own or A system of channels is incorporated into the mould , through which a cooling agent is pumped .

I think a water-jacketed mold would be too expensive for these kinds of products,
but who knows? I think the molds are pre-heated, but maybe only to the 60-80° range.
That would cool the material almost instantly, although 'cool' is relative.
Air cooling, perhaps in a walk-in cooler shouldn't be too hard to do.

bob7892 wrote: So here's my Idea
PUT the doll skeleton in mould one , this can be shaped to form a rubber core simulating bone or mussel shapes , then once cooled place the skeleton into the second mould and inject the softer TPE to form the final product .
This would give the appearance of an ultra realistic body , but would be expensive to produce , and may also add to the weight of the doll .

And the whole idea came from the lack of ivory to make billiard balls

This is essentially how many things are made, although maybe not with a rubber core.
But it could also be done with lightweight plastics to simulate bone and muscle shape.
And if they could isolate the internal areas that don't need fill and seal them off,
that might reduce the weight. Any area that isn't 'bone' or 'muscle' could be an airbag,
and injection molding is perfect for this. Picture something like the bottles under the
hood of your car.. windshield washer fluid, brake fluid etc.
but it means a complete re-design. That's the expensive part!

Wow, nice technical insights here

bob7892 wrote:
Doc , Kiriena Is due home on the 19th , so as long a the horrid people at customs don't delay her , I wll be able to do a comparison for you , Is there anything in particular you want me to look at

Hi bob,
hope the customs assholes let your Kiriena directly go and you will receive her tomorrow !
I'm just curious, what you think about your first 6YEdoll (first TPE?)
I was reading your beautiful "blind" review with that small cherry nose
Just reminds me on my doll

I was just typing the last bit I have added to my post ,as you posted yours
Great minds think alike
And between us we may have come up with the next , evolution in doll manufacturing

this is up to new level, 6ye surprise!

bob7892 wrote:I was just typing the last bit I have added to my post ,as you posted yours
Great minds think alike
And between us we may have come up with the next , evolution in doll manufacturing

HA! We're just a coupla jeenyissiz

There's many ways to approach the same issues.. the manufacturers seem to
have chosen a common path, while us armchair quarterbacks come up with
others. But it's the people laying out the money who get to decide.. and no
matter what they choose, there will be customers to buy them as long as the
product is reasonably priced and of acceptible quality.