IronTech Handplate-Finger Attachment

[irontechdoll]

Will take photos and let you guys know here.

Best regards
Leonard

[-Ragnar66-]

Will take photos and let you guys know here.

Best regards
Leonard

Thanks! That would be very very

[SSIrontech]

Here are two pictures of our Irontech handplate-finger wire

[-Ragnar66-]

Here are two pictures of our Irontech handplate-finger wire

thanks Shane! Just compared with Izabels (groped through TPE) and can confirm. So the wires are glued (resin?) to handplate then. Means the holes are still there and wires can be stuck back with bits of patience.

Edit: Okay, I was partly successful with sticking 2-3 fingers halfway back, but hand condition remains feeble nonetheless. Some wires are still loose despite bits of renewed fixation. Well... better than nothing. I´d also figured one the wires in fact is broken. Bits of it sticks out from the handplate while I could feel the other broken end within the finger. Got to think about different hand posing techniques with this hands condition but I should most my intended posing plans still get to work.

Shane, Leonard: I believe the hand/wire and skeleton pics should go into the doll manuals as well! While it doesn´t replace a true "how to pose correctly" section, it could at least give any users the general idea.

[Booty Call Dolls]

Chances are fingers broke at the weld....
One solution is to drill holes at edge of hand plate.
The remove wires and put in new ones or pull finger wires back and insert
There are other options as well
BCD

[avante]

So I initially thought the same as you Ragnar; putting the wires back in the tube, but in the end it turned out ALL my fingers broke where they enter the plate (were connected to the epoxy). The hand design is very obviously flawed by default, dont beat yourself up, really nothing you can do about it...about the fingers breaking I mean ( I've had some of mine 'snap' while there was no strain/stress on them). Maybe they use very grade Z copper, or just way to thin (as its suppose to take a couple of bends). Surely tho with minimal thought and effort you'll make better replacement; the main reason why it's so shitty quality on the hands is not improved in production.

[-Ragnar66-]

Chances are fingers broke at the weld....
One solution is to drill holes at edge of hand plate.
The remove wires and put in new ones or pull finger wires back and insert
There are other options as well
BCD

the one Izabel´s finger broken is roughly half an inch beyond the handplate. So I guess it wasn´t the weld that broke actually. But can´t tell for sure off course. Unless MF´s hand design is ready for action, I won´t open the TPE for any half hearted solutions though. In case another finger breaks I got to reopen the TPE again and so on. So I better be careful with what´s left of her functional fingers and hope for the best the next times coming.

As can be seen in Shane´s pics, it´s just the basic handplate/finger design and it yet gets adapted to the individual dolls´hands/fingers. I´ll make some illustration on how Izabel´s hand wires are pre-bent for final functionality upon deliveries. This also should give an idea how to pose fingers properly when knowing where to hold and where to bend I think. Don´t think any newbe doll owners should make the same faults as I did.

[-Ragnar66-]

So I initially thought the same as you Ragnar; putting the wires back in the tube, but in the end it turned out ALL my fingers broke where they enter the plate (were connected to the epoxy). The hand design is very obviously flawed by default, dont beat yourself up, really nothing you can do about it...about the fingers breaking I mean ( I've had some of mine 'snap' while there was no strain/stress on them). Maybe they use very grade Z copper, or just way to thin (as its suppose to take a couple of bends). Surely tho with minimal thought and effort you'll make better replacement; the main reason why it's so shitty quality on the hands is not improved in production.

I don´t have high hopes for sure on that. But it feels at least some fingers are back at a place where they don´t start that odd twisting again and let wires poke out of the finger tips TPE. That´s then another source for further doll damage. I´m fairly sure one the wires poked into Izabels body and left a small but well visible hole. I couldn´t find another explantion since I lay her down on places free of any sharp things.

The first 1-2 inches of the wires starting at the plate are surely the weak points. The wires themselves appear quite durable to me. As said further above nothing got broke from actual finger posing, but rather from little accidents i.e turning the body around and other doll movements. Just had a serious accident while posing for that Rockn Roll photo challenge with Izabel´s ellbow joint smashing on a hard edged surface. I now got a rather big hole in the ellbow and 2 smaller ones next to it. This will be my first major repair attempt with soldering iron at a later time.

[avante]

Yeah sure, most finger damages will appear with small things (screw ups) but I just said that to make the point that even without that they will break eventually . Shitty on the elbow! Another part you'll see when you open it up is rather prone to damages due too the metal not being shielded of. Good luck with that repair tho man!

[-Ragnar66-]

Yeah sure, most finger damages will appear with small things (screw ups) but I just said that to make the point that even without that they will break eventually . Shitty on the elbow! Another part you'll see when you open it up is rather prone to damages due too the metal not being shielded of. Good luck with that repair tho man!

Yep, just can tell of a month long experience (got her april 24th) and it supports your statement for sure. Well....we´ll see. I´ll check this off as yet another painfull lesson learned then. Yet I like to repeat again, it was Me who did a number of noob faults and some the mentioned issues I could have avoided if I was informed better on certain things. Just beeing cautious is quite obviously not enough.

The ellbow....think the damage would be worse if IT TPE would not be that durable as it is. But no chance. The ellbow smashed on a metal hinge of a guitar case with rather big force and I can be glad it not turned out worse. See pic below.

Izabel_EllbowDamage.jpg (644.94 KiB) Viewed 1330 times

[Booty Call Dolls]

The other idea is you make your own tubes and put above the hand plate.
Now, technically, you do not have to remove the finger wires, you can pull them back toward the hand plate.
By reducing the distance from the pivot point of rotation, you reduce the torque at that point.
Maybe it gave way at 2nd place?
Best,
Jeff

[-Ragnar66-]

The other idea is you make your own tubes and put above the hand plate.
Now, technically, you do not have to remove the finger wires, you can pull them back toward the hand plate.
By reducing the distance from the pivot point of rotation, you reduce the torque at that point.
Maybe it gave way at 2nd place?
Best,
Jeff

thanks Jeff, got it! At least looks like it could be worth some try. Personally I´m not (yet) at a point where I´d start thinking about opening Izabel´s hands as said. I also have lots of stuff in preparation with her and want to finish it all yet. Budget for this month doesn´t allow me to buy a reasonably good soldering iron set (temperature regulated) and accessories (IR temperature gauge) as well. We´ll see.

While we´re at fingers. I also found the nails on Izabel while nice looking bits too delicate for any sort of physical contact. Thus the first 2-3 came off just after 1-2 days already. In consequence I removed them all when I also got the first fingers detached with them start twisting.

So as another option I´d suggest IronTech to consider not attaching seperate nails at all, but rather (half) permanently coloring of the TPE sculpted nailbed shapes instead. Or leave them colorless and let do the users apply their own coloring. Since I can´t refrain from finger posing I came to a flexible solution, by just applying a thick layer of corn starch on the nailbeds. This at least gives an "impression" that Izabel has "finger nails" actually. No idea if anbody noticed that Izabel has no "physical" finger nails since quite some long time?

[-Ragnar66-]

Here´s one of Izabel´s sad condition hands showing the pre configured finger wire bends. I think before attempt posing fingers, particularly thumb and little finger, one should have this in mind.

Izabel_IT155cm_BothHands.jpg (420.74 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

[-Ragnar66-]

No idea if it´s limited to the smaller dolls (my IT 155) hands but I found the wires ends do not appear having any sort of rounded security cap attached. Thus they so easily poke through the TPE and when fingers detached in particular. As seen from my previous example this can not be just an additional source for all kind of damages (doll skin, clothes etc), but if unlucky, to the user as well.

FingerWiresEnds.jpg (103.9 KiB) Viewed 1320 times

[MannequinFan]

For those interested in following, we have been working on replacement palm plate/finger wires here...
viewtopic.php?p=1535608#p1535608

Suggestions/questions for IT if they are listening...
You make some of the nicest looking dolls on the market - why not be innovative and be the first to solve this ongoing issue?

1. Hand plates need to have rigid metacarpals like a real hand instead of the wires just coming out of the palm plate.
IMO a lot of the early breakage we are seeing is probably caused by the doll owner unknowingly grabbing the finger wires when moving or rotating the hands.

2. Add rigid tubes on the wires for the phalanges so bending is more realistic.

3. Make the skeleton accessible and repairable if possible.
Dolls have neck joints, why not have wrist joints? Would that really be that bad?
Could the TPE hand fit like a glove over the skeleton so it could be pulled off for repairs?

Could 3d printed nylon parts (SLS) be used in the skeletons? Shapeways states the material is heat safe to 163C.