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Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »

rubherkitty wrote:
LDF wrote:I think a pneumatic/vacuum based system would be better than multiple electric motors.
Pneumatic/vacuum based soft robotics actuators already exist.
Just my opinion.
That may be possible.
There are a lot of Halloween animatronics that use this, but the props have to be tied to a air compressor and tank in order to have enough air to operate.
Maybe a stationary doll could have the air lines running into a foot?
Mechanical noise does not bother me as my sexual encounters w/a doll usually involve heavy beat music played loud. I do not currently have a doll that is suited for quiet time cuddling so... When I do, then the noise issue may become an issue.
As far as balance issues, maybe something like this?
There are micro vacuum/pneumatic pumps out there. It's a question of power.

Can we get vacuum/pneumatic pumps, and storage batteries powerful enough to operate a soft robotic android, of sufficient mass/size to do "THE JOB" (:roll:), for a long enough period of time?

One key advantage of using opposing sets of vacuum/pneumatic soft robotics actuators (muscles) on an android doll is that you can recapture some of the energy used to move the body part against gravity. Clearly, there is a long list of problems that need to be solved.

The actual AI part is going to come from GPUs (Graphic Processor Units).

IMHO.
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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by Begog »

LDF wrote:
rubherkitty wrote:
LDF wrote:I think a pneumatic/vacuum based system would be better than multiple electric motors.
Pneumatic/vacuum based soft robotics actuators already exist.
Just my opinion.
That may be possible.
There are a lot of Halloween animatronics that use this, but the props have to be tied to a air compressor and tank in order to have enough air to operate.
Maybe a stationary doll could have the air lines running into a foot?
Mechanical noise does not bother me as my sexual encounters w/a doll usually involve heavy beat music played loud. I do not currently have a doll that is suited for quiet time cuddling so... When I do, then the noise issue may become an issue.
As far as balance issues, maybe something like this?
There are micro vacuum/pneumatic pumps out there. It's a question of power.

Can we get vacuum/pneumatic pumps, and storage batteries powerful enough to operate a soft robotic android, of sufficient mass/size to do "THE JOB" (:roll:), for a long enough period of time?

One key advantage of using opposing sets of vacuum/pneumatic soft robotics actuators (muscles) on an android doll is that you can recapture some of the energy used to move the body part against gravity. Clearly, there is a long list of problems that need to be solved.

The actual AI part is going to come from GPUs (Graphic Processor Units).

IMHO.
Why would AI need graphics processing? Graphics on a chatbot, even something as complex as a Soul Machine are far simpler than say, Call of Duty. IMHO, the moving parts (actuators, sensors, etc.) of the robot will be PLC controlled (Programmable Logic Controllers), while the "brains" for machine learning will require a robust CPU, with lots of RAM, probably some type of quantum computer. PLCs are what controls the current robots (we have many) in the factory I work. They don't walk or talk, but they can spit out parts and lift/move things far beyond human ability. They work inside safety cages which will disable the robots when opened, so you don't get in it's way and get crushed, because it will never know or care you were there, and our little flesh and bones won't even slow it down much, if any.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »

Begog wrote:
LDF wrote:
rubherkitty wrote:
LDF wrote:I think a pneumatic/vacuum based system would be better than multiple electric motors.
Pneumatic/vacuum based soft robotics actuators already exist.
Just my opinion.
That may be possible.
There are a lot of Halloween animatronics that use this, but the props have to be tied to a air compressor and tank in order to have enough air to operate.
Maybe a stationary doll could have the air lines running into a foot?
Mechanical noise does not bother me as my sexual encounters w/a doll usually involve heavy beat music played loud. I do not currently have a doll that is suited for quiet time cuddling so... When I do, then the noise issue may become an issue.
As far as balance issues, maybe something like this?
There are micro vacuum/pneumatic pumps out there. It's a question of power.

Can we get vacuum/pneumatic pumps, and storage batteries powerful enough to operate a soft robotic android, of sufficient mass/size to do "THE JOB" (:roll:), for a long enough period of time?

One key advantage of using opposing sets of vacuum/pneumatic soft robotics actuators (muscles) on an android doll is that you can recapture some of the energy used to move the body part against gravity. Clearly, there is a long list of problems that need to be solved.

The actual AI part is going to come from GPUs (Graphic Processor Units).

IMHO.
Why would AI need graphics processing? Graphics on a chatbot, even something as complex as a Soul Machine are far simpler than say, Call of Duty. IMHO, the moving parts (actuators, sensors, etc.) of the robot will be PLC controlled (Programmable Logic Controllers), while the "brains" for machine learning will require a robust CPU, with lots of RAM, probably some type of quantum computer. PLCs are what controls the current robots (we have many) in the factory I work. They don't walk or talk, but they can spit out parts and lift/move things far beyond human ability. They work inside safety cages which will disable the robots when opened, so you don't get in it's way and get crushed, because it will never know or care you were there, and our little flesh and bones won't even slow it down much, if any.
Looks like you missed the big Nvidia conference. :lol:



GPUs are used in AI, voice recognition, and in self driving vehicles, among other things.

If you've ever noticed what's on the computer monitors next to the folks doing all the work in advanced love dolls, you'll also notice there's a lot of 3D modelling going on (graphics processing).

IMHO:

GPUs make sense for Androids. They can model the Androids "Bones", the environment (through recognition apps), and they're great at speech processing. If you ever want your Sexbot to dance for you, it's going to need a GPU.
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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by lilbitlonely »

Just imagine when they start applying motion capture to soft robotics.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by Begog »

LDF wrote:Looks like you missed the big Nvidia conference. :lol:
GPUs are used in AI, voice recognition, and in self driving vehicles, among other things.

If you've ever noticed what's on the computer monitors next to the folks doing all the work in advanced love dolls, you'll also notice there's a lot of 3D modelling going on (graphics processing).

IMHO:

GPUs make sense for Androids. They can model the Androids "Bones", the environment (through recognition apps), and they're great at speech processing. If you ever want your Sexbot to dance for you, it's going to need a GPU.
It's true, I did miss the "big Nvidia conference," but it didn't really change my opinion. I did learn some things though. It was rather lengthy, but I watched it at work and got paid to do so. One thing I found interesting was the way the Nvidia speaker described their version of Image recognition. Using cameras and sensors, the AI builds a virtual world, much like NVidia's "Holodeck" which I also found fascinating, then figures out what to do in the virtual world before doing it in the real world. That's a big shift from the way it is currently being done. They've also made a lot of progress on self driving cars. Did you notice how many times they mentioned Fanuc robots? One thing I was not aware of was that the speaker said they had partnered with Fanuc as of October. That should yield improvements in robot surgeons and other delicate jobs robots will soon be doing.
As I've said before, there are dozens of robots in the factory I work. The vast majority of them are Fanuc, arguably the leaders of industrial robot technology. Do they have GPUs? No. CPUs? No. They are controlled exclusively by PLCs, as I suggested above. Fanuc actually makes their own proprietary PLC, and that's what's in them. Most of ours are 2 to 4 axis, with some type of "gripper" mechanism attached to the "arm." Yep, I'm talking about these, and so was the Nvidia speaker. Sex dolls were not mentioned.
Image
https://www.fanucamerica.com/

However, in order to create walking/talking sexbots, IR and VR must improve drastically. The speaker claims Nvidia is leading the way in those areas, and I will not argue that. They may very well be. But keep in mind, this highly touted "volta" GPU works "in conjunction with a supercomputer." I suggested a quantum computer, which is the direction super computers appear to be heading. So I was NOT wrong. One thing I definitely agree with the speaker on, is that software must write software. It has become too complicated and huge for error prone humans to write.
Obviously, the stationery robots that we (the engineering department in my plant) maintain are a far cry from a sex bot. They are blind and deaf, with no need for a GPU. The Graphics Processing Unit renders graphics. It can crunch mind-numbing numbers at incredible speeds, but it doesn't control I/O (inputs, outputs, motors, valves, etc.) to create movement. This is where the PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) is king and will remain so for the foreseeable future. Sure, a raspberry pi can do some I/O, and some PLC systems use a computer to control their I/O, but they pale in comparison to an Allen-Bradley PLC such as a ControlLogix system.
http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Progra ... ntrolLogix
These PLCs (and others like Fanuc) are the brains behind modern industrial machines. They command the actuators and receive the input from the sensors, prox switches, light curtains, switches, etc. Yes, they can be slaves to a computer, server, or other remote device, but when it comes time to move something, with a motor, cylinder, or other actuator, the command nearly always comes from a PLC. As long as we are using actuators, and not some type of artificial muscles, that's how I expect it to be driven. I've been in this field a very long time, and have seen our machines evolve from old relay panels with miles of wires, to the robot infested high tech machinery we have today.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »

Begog:

I'm glad you got (paid) to watch the Nvidia conference. I'm also glad it helped you to make your own comparisons.

Do I think that someone/something will design a PLC on a board that can handle an android?

Perhaps within 10 years AI will be up to the task. 8O

As for how the 'world' is re-created in VR, processed, and then re-created in the real world is exactly how I think androids will become possible. :thumbs_up:

What is happening now in the sex doll industry isn't following the AI model as far as I can see. I do see some GPU applications happening though.

It's still basically a race to get a 'talking head' to market.

But, I am very much fascinated by how it's developing.

LDF.
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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by ZZZZ »

PaulDenton2001 wrote:...using topic databases to help it (to reduce the need for full AI)...
In "Why Philosophers Should Care About Computational Complexity", Scott Aaronson makes a compelling argument that a dead-simple "lookup table" could be "full" (Turing Test passing) AI. The table would contain all possible input conversations, and for each of those conversations, a suitable response. The main problem is that the table might have to be "larger than the observable universe". :lol: It's the least efficient way possible of representing a consciousness. Still, for reasonably short conversations (and using some fuzzy matching to the closest "input" conversation), it might be pretty decent in terms of space and verisimilitude. I guess that's the same technology as a search engine, but geared towards making conversation (rather than answering specific questions).
Begog wrote:... the "brains" for machine learning will require a robust CPU, with lots of RAM, probably some type of quantum computer.
Aaronson makes the case that although quantum computers may be more powerful than classical computers for very specific tasks (prime number factoring, and modeling quantum physics itself), there's no reason to assume that the human brain achieves intelligence by performing quantum computing. Firstly, brains are too hot and wet for quantum computing, and secondly, it's hard to argue that AI and prime number factoring are comparable problems.
Begog wrote:Why would AI need graphics processing?
From what I've read, GPUs are appealing to AI researchers because they're good for doing a lot of parallel calculations that don't need to be very precise - apparently, that's what "neural networks" require. In that case, it's not "graphics processing", just repurposing some hardware that happens to be suitable.

Whether you think neural networks are the answer is another question. In the beginning, AI researchers thought they were. But after decades of failure, neural networks became something like a joke. However, in the last decade a multi-layered approach to neural networks started solving tough problems like language translation, speech recognition, image processing, etc. Google is manufacturing their own CPUs that are optimized for running their neural network software, "TensorFlow". To me, it looks like everyone is jumping in a neural network dog pile.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by Begog »

LDF wrote:Begog:

I'm glad you got (paid) to watch the Nvidia conference. I'm also glad it helped you to make your own comparisons.

Do I think that someone/something will design a PLC on a board that can handle an android?

Perhaps within 10 years AI will be up to the task. 8O

As for how the 'world' is re-created in VR, processed, and then re-created in the real world is exactly how I think androids will become possible. :thumbs_up:

What is happening now in the sex doll industry isn't following the AI model as far as I can see. I do see some GPU applications happening though.

It's still basically a race to get a 'talking head' to market.

But, I am very much fascinated by how it's developing.

LDF.
LDF:
PLC's could handle all the motor functions of an android now, along with all the sensors you want to throw on one. And they don't have to be big like the ControlLogix rack I linked to - they make much smaller ones that could easily fit inside the head or chest of an android, and, they don't use much power, and only 24VDC. BUT, we got a long way to go in the development of artificial limbs. While they do exist (and some can even be controlled by brain signals), something is telling the actuators to move, at what force, etc. I would assume that something is some form of PLC. Probably one designed for such an application.
Another problem is that although the PLC itself doesn't require much power, the items it controls DO. It would require one hell of a power source, something like a smaller Tesla battery. The battery, motors, cylinders, drives, linkage, etc. add up the weight quickly. The more it weighs, the more power it will consume just moving around. These are tough problems.
I too am fascinated by the developments, coming in exponentially these days it seems. I just hope androids arrive before I'm too old to enjoy them.
Abyss Creations Realbotix Harmony head is not off to a bad start, but the machine learning leaves much to be desired. I have a copy on an android tablet, and while the VR works fine, Harmony's replies leave much to be desired. Because of the way the head attaches, she can turn left/right. but not tilt. She blinks her eyes pretty good now, and can make some basic expressions, so she's coming along. If an outfit like Nvidia or Soul Machines would team up with Realbotix, I'd get excited. As it is, I'm probably going to let the first generation or two go by until I see some real machine learning.
Until the Nvidia conference, their way of doing things had not occurred to me. Thank you for that. The VVS camera systems and laser measuring devices I am familiar with do not work that way - there is no GPU. They can detect/measure width, length, thickness, distance, bad stock, no stock, and many other things, BUT if an android is to function in the real world, it is going to have to see it much like we do. The GPU could be the answer.
:glou:

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »

Begog wrote:
LDF:
...Another problem is that although the PLC itself doesn't require much power, the items it controls DO. It would require one hell of a power source, something like a smaller Tesla battery. The battery, motors, cylinders, drives, linkage, etc. add up the weight quickly. The more it weighs, the more power it will consume just moving around. These are tough problems.
...
Yup, our dolls are already breaking the 100lb (45kg) mark.

My proposed solutions are an integrated 3D printed approach for as much of the 'doll' as possible, and vacuum/pneumatic soft robotic actuators/sensors. Those 'cells' that are created when 'slicing' the 3D model can be made to serve multiple functions solving several issues at once.

IMHO:

The android dolls should be closer to 50 lbs total weight rather than 100 lbs total weight for the same sized android doll.

Like most of us, I have to take the time to come up to speed with what is happening in AI.

YouTube is my favorite means to educate myself on soooo many topics.

Here's something on 'Object Detection' from a channel I've subscribed to:

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by Begog »

LDF: I watched that video in its entirety. Yep, got paid! :lol:
Have to admit he lost me when he started talking C+ programming - not my field. I like Nvidia's plan for IR better, as well as Intel's. They have a self driving car too. Seems to work really well, but he did say it needed to be online to access Google Earth. Seems to me a dead zone would be a major problem.
Back to quantum computers - claimed to be vastly superior to supercomputers, and Intel's new 49 qubit processor is the king. Supposedly, quantum computers "think" much more like a human, and are not limited to binary, which is said to be a limiting factor in the development of supercomputers because larger binary code eventually becomes untenable, making speed increases more and more challenging. However, quantum computers have a major issue of their own: they run at 15 millikelvin or less, damn near absolute zero, colder than outer space. 8O So, unless they invent their way around that hurdle, we will never see this technology inside our future androids. I would expect to see a "normal" computer inside the android, that can access the quantum computer wirelessly like Harmony accesses the cloud today. That's my vision.
The good thing is, the more big companies developing AI, the more breakthroughs will come, and the sooner we will be able to afford the technology.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by ZZZZ »

Begog wrote:Back to quantum computers - claimed to be vastly superior to supercomputers, and Intel's new 49 qubit processor is the king. Supposedly, quantum computers "think" much more like a human, and are not limited to binary, which is said to be a limiting factor in the development of supercomputers because larger binary code eventually becomes untenable, making speed increases more and more challenging.
You wouldn't expect scientists to over-hype the potential of quantum computers, but they do. Aaronson spends a lot of time debunking their claims - like that qubits can store more information than "larger binary code" (bits).
Scott Aaronson wrote:This is true only for a bizarre definition of the word “store”! The fundamental problem is that, when you measure a quantum computer’s state, you see only one of the possible outcomes; the rest disappear. Indeed, a celebrated result called Holevo’s Theorem says that, using n qubits, there is no way to store more than n classical bits so that the bits can be reliably retrieved later. In other words: for at least one natural definition of “information-carrying capacity,” qubits have exactly the same capacity as bits.
https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf
I'm not trying to be contrary, I just think it's a fascinating subject and highly recommend reading Scott Aaronson's work - he's like the Carl Sagan of quantum computing.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by Begog »

ZZZZ wrote:
Begog wrote:Back to quantum computers - claimed to be vastly superior to supercomputers, and Intel's new 49 qubit processor is the king. Supposedly, quantum computers "think" much more like a human, and are not limited to binary, which is said to be a limiting factor in the development of supercomputers because larger binary code eventually becomes untenable, making speed increases more and more challenging.
You wouldn't expect scientists to over-hype the potential of quantum computers, but they do. Aaronson spends a lot of time debunking their claims - like that qubits can store more information than "larger binary code" (bits).
Scott Aaronson wrote:This is true only for a bizarre definition of the word “store”! The fundamental problem is that, when you measure a quantum computer’s state, you see only one of the possible outcomes; the rest disappear. Indeed, a celebrated result called Holevo’s Theorem says that, using n qubits, there is no way to store more than n classical bits so that the bits can be reliably retrieved later. In other words: for at least one natural definition of “information-carrying capacity,” qubits have exactly the same capacity as bits.
https://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/philos.pdf
I'm not trying to be contrary, I just think it's a fascinating subject and highly recommend reading Scott Aaronson's work - he's like the Carl Sagan of quantum computing.
I'm not claiming anything or arguing, just pointing out what Intel is claiming, as LDF pointed out what Nvidia is claiming. Both are highly respected and successful companies.

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by ZZZZ »

Begog wrote:I'm not claiming anything or arguing, just pointing out what Intel is claiming, as LDF pointed out what Nvidia is claiming. Both are highly respected and successful companies.
I didn't mean to imply that you're responsible for Intel's claims. :)

And yes, Intel is a respected and successful company, just like several other companies who have made exuberant quantum computing claims (such as Google). But "follow the money" - Intel, Google, et al. need to keep their share prices up, and quantum computing is great marketing. Meanwhile, computer scientists have no financial incentive to be naysayers.

I'll be interested regardless of whether Intel/Google/etc. succeed or fail - we'll learn something either way, so I have no dog in that fight... except maybe this:
I would hate for someone interested in AI to hold back because they're waiting for a "magic feather" (in the form of quantum computing).

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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »

IMHO:

We're a long way from what most of us would call a "real deal" Love Android.

My guess is that we might get dolls with PLC pre-programmed poses as well as 'canned' responses to voice commands and questions within 10 years. That's a good thing.

While the "Talking Heads" that are being developed are the first attempts to use neural nets in a love doll, I can see how talking heads that can't 'give head' or a response that makes sense will leave most of us waiting on the sidelines. The high price doesn't help either.

As for myself, I'm on the verge of signing up for courses in AI, etc. . I like to see what's going on 'inside' the efforts currently underway.

One of the reasons why I bought a love doll is because I wanted a point of comparison before the first love androids were developed. :)

We've got a way to go, but I understand the path forward that is currently being taken. It leads me to suggest that instead of going for talking heads first, we should be developing full body, animated, fully articulated, chatting 3D virtual AVATARS that look something like this:
Adiana3.jpg
Adiana3.jpg (276.26 KiB) Viewed 2107 times
Then we can go from the virtual world to the real world after so many key issues have been resolved. We may have jumped a step. 8O
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Re: Intelligence vs Sentience; AI & Lovebots

Post by LDF »



Where we are now. :)
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