An Update on Making My Doll

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:46 pm

rubherkitty wrote:Glad things are progressing!

A hugs thanks to you, my friend. One question, is it still possible to do multiple casting in fiberglass without the need for a tooling gelcoat?

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 1:33 pm

If you're casting silicone or foam using release in a non tool coated fiberglass mold I think it would be fine for many castings. Maybe you could do 40+ without issue?
The tool coat is probably more intended for casting solid resin or fiberglass in a fiberglass mold.
Probably the issue w/a fiberglass mold is the chance of scratching the fiberglass surface and transferring the flaw to the finished product.

You have to lay down a resin coat on your model to start with and I know tooling resin cost quite a bit more than Std resin. I've has this debate. Extra resin cost vs the overall time and material involved in making the mold.
How many dolls do you want to ultimately cast? You might go on the cheap first and see how it works out.

I plan to spray release + dust the mold with fine powder to give the doll more skin like texture and reduce shine. Any little bump, dip, scratch can make the doll unique and human. Mirror slick castings are more important for body panels on cars, etc.

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:06 pm

rubherkitty wrote:If you're casting silicone or foam using release in a non tool coated fiberglass mold I think it would be fine for many castings. Maybe you could do 40+ without issue?
The tool coat is probably more intended for casting solid resin or fiberglass in a fiberglass mold.
Probably the issue w/a fiberglass mold is the chance of scratching the fiberglass surface and transferring the flaw to the finished product.

You have to lay down a resin coat on your model to start with and I know tooling resin cost quite a bit more than Std resin. I've has this debate. Extra resin cost vs the overall time and material involved in making the mold.
How many dolls do you want to ultimately cast? You might go on the cheap first and see how it works out.

I plan to spray release + dust the mold with fine powder to give the doll more skin like texture and reduce shine. Any little bump, dip, scratch can make the doll unique and human. Mirror slick castings are more important for body panels on cars, etc.

I'm using Flex-FoamIt! 6 for the final cast since it's a urethane foam. In my previous post, I tested out this particular foam and had some good as well as some bad results. I was initially going to use another company's foam but the cost for one quart of their foam was $75 and the Flex-FoamIt! 6 for the trial size was $32. Better to go with what you have experience with rather than try something that would be an expensive piece of crap.

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:35 pm

I wouldn't mess w/a tooling coat if you're just casting foam. Just let the resin cure real well first and maybe spray on a sealer.

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:44 pm

rubherkitty wrote:I wouldn't mess w/a tooling coat if you're just casting foam. Just let the resin cure real well first and maybe spray on a sealer.

The mannequin head is partly covered in Chavant clay. According to Smooth-On, they said to spray Shellac and then use the Universal Mold Release. It's also the same towards water-based clay. So the good news is I can just use straight fiberglass, Shellac, and mold release. Not only that, it might save me some money not having to buy tooling gelcoat!

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:55 pm

I've been thinking about making a foam doll now. I ck'd into the Flex-FoamIt! 6 and it appears to be a open cell foam with no skinning properties. Do you plan to cover the foam doll in a fabric skin or clothing?

Foam cast into a silicone mold requires no release from what I have studied, but if you cast it in a fiberglass mold it will need release. That means the release might soak into the foam unless it's a self skinning foam. Any foam cast against a release will need cleaned up if you want to paint it.

You may need a specific release for urethane foam too! Here is one company I ran across as an example. https://miller-stephenson.com/polyureth ... se-agents/
They offer a release for open cell pillow type foam.

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:14 pm

rubherkitty wrote:I've been thinking about making a foam doll now. I ck'd into the Flex-FoamIt! 6 and it appears to be a open cell foam with no skinning properties. Do you plan to cover the foam doll in a fabric skin or clothing?

Foam cast into a silicone mold requires no release from what I have studied, but if you cast it in a fiberglass mold it will need release. That means the release might soak into the foam unless it's a self skinning foam. Any foam cast against a release will need cleaned up if you want to paint it.

Basically, I was just going to go straight to just using foam. I thought about using a flexible polyurethane skin with at least just two or three layers thick and the foam would be the insides. I am currently looking at the brush on polyurethane rubber on Smooth-On to see if it could work as the skin layer.

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:29 pm

I just edited my above post regarding urethane release.

I also just spent some time studying the urethane skin w/ foam core idea. You might be able to paint in a skin layer on both sides of a 2-pc mold, let that firm up then bolt the mold together and pour more in the seal the joint line. This would make working around a skeleton handy.

You could try to tip the mold to cover the joint line or strap the mold in a roto cast device.
And if you are going to use a roto cast device you might just do that from the start vs painting in the skin on the 2 halves. I figure either way you go, the lower legs & feet and forearms & hands will probably end up solid urethane skin rubber. Especially if you have a skeleton. Especially on a small doll too. Can't see much open space for foam to flow into unless the skin is very thin and then you might end up w/a thin soft spot.

Candy18 dolls used to make dolls like this and they had lots of problems w/ thin spots of the skin and poor foam fill/ sometimes had air pockets in foam. But they were not high quality dolls either.

Have you seen this vid by Brick in the Yard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZZGyIHcbc

I have thought about using a self skinning foam, but you have to be careful about the weight.
I think Smooth-Ons lightest SS foam is 14 lbs per cubic ft free form. Compressed molding and it will be heavier. I want to do a doll around 5' but don't want it going over 50 lbs.
OK, I just researched at it says a 155 lb human is around 2.4 cu ft. Seems small to me. Figure 2.5 x 14 lbs = 35lbs + skeleton. So maybe 45 lbs.

BITY sells a Prop 10 SS foam, but it has a shore hardness of 40A. I think much of the SS foam is going to be too hard for a doll. I know they make skinned foam dolls that are soft. I just have to find the right stuff. https://www.brickintheyard.com/collecti ... am10-quart

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:33 pm

rubherkitty wrote:I've been thinking about making a foam doll now. I ck'd into the Flex-FoamIt! 6 and it appears to be a open cell foam with no skinning properties. Do you plan to cover the foam doll in a fabric skin or clothing?

Foam cast into a silicone mold requires no release from what I have studied, but if you cast it in a fiberglass mold it will need release. That means the release might soak into the foam unless it's a self skinning foam. Any foam cast against a release will need cleaned up if you want to paint it.

You may need a specific release for urethane foam too! Here is one company I ran across as an example. https://miller-stephenson.com/polyureth ... se-agents/
They offer a release for open cell pillow type foam.

I can actually use Urecoat and brush on the foam. By the way, I took a look at the mold release for the open cell foam but it doesn't say the price for the mold release. I bought the universal mold release because I assume it would work on even open cell foam. I was trying to make it affordable without having to buy an expensive mold release.

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:44 pm

I get the budget thing. Best to do a small test w/t release and foam, etc. Foam ain't cheap either.

Omega_Vato · Post by **Omega_Vato** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:05 am

rubherkitty wrote:I just edited my above post regarding urethane release.

I also just spent some time studying the urethane skin w/ foam core idea. You might be able to paint in a skin layer on both sides of a 2-pc mold, let that firm up then bolt the mold together and pour more in the seal the joint line. This would make working around a skeleton handy.

You could try to tip the mold to cover the joint line or strap the mold in a roto cast device.
And if you are going to use a roto cast device you might just do that from the start vs painting in the skin on the 2 halves. I figure either way you go, the lower legs & feet and forearms & hands will probably end up solid urethane skin rubber. Especially if you have a skeleton. Especially on a small doll too. Can't see much open space for foam to flow into unless the skin is very thin and then you might end up w/a thin soft spot.

Candy18 dolls used to make dolls like this and they had lots of problems w/ thin spots of the skin and poor foam fill/ sometimes had air pockets in foam. But they were not high quality dolls either.

Have you seen this vid by Brick in the Yard?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQZZGyIHcbc

I have thought about using a self skinning foam, but you have to be careful about the weight.
I think Smooth-Ons lightest SS foam is 14 lbs per cubic ft free form. Compressed molding and it will be heavier. I want to do a doll around 5' but don't want it going over 50 lbs.
OK, I just researched at it says a 155 lb human is around 2.4 cu ft. Seems small to me. Figure 2.5 x 14 lbs = 35lbs + skeleton. So maybe 45 lbs.

BITY sells a Prop 10 SS foam, but it has a shore hardness of 40A. I think much of the SS foam is going to be too hard for a doll. I know they make skinned foam dolls that are soft. I just have to find the right stuff. https://www.brickintheyard.com/collecti ... am10-quart

Oh I saw that video before. In fact, I have samples of foam from BJB Enterprises (BITY must the distributor for BJB) and I have spoken with them a few months back. They explained to me that I can use their polyurethane skin (BR-25 REV 1) as the skin layer and then use TC-267 100/100 as the meat. I initially was going to use them but when I saw their prices, I decided to just use Smooth-On instead because of the affordability. I would be interesting if I use some of BJB's products and Smooth-On's products, but I doubt that because both companies have a different formula for their materials.

Rotocasting on the body is not going to happen, plus I don't want to buy a machine to do it. I might rotocast the head but not the body. The body and head is 4' 4" (about 138 cm) and I probably want to brush on the skin layers on the two halves, let it become tacky, and pour on the foam. I think at least two gallons would do the trick. Afterwards, I'll lay the wire skeleton on one of the halves and then start combining the halves together and bolt them to completely cure.

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 12:59 am

You only have about 30 seconds to pour the foam and it finishes setting in like 10 minutes.
Don't know how you're going to pour foam, place the skeleton and bolt the halves together in 40 seconds. Otherwise the foam is going to expand wild. You'll have to trim the foam then try to glue the body halves together.

On the BITY video about the Urethane Skin, he said you only had about 4 minutes working time so figure it's starting to jell in 8-10 minutes.
if you have the room, a hand operated roto device can be made for cheap. Of course this is best for something that sets up within 10 minutes. Not 10 hrs!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjbho_1aZKU

There again I understand about the cost of the urethane skin. It's not a whole lot cheaper than just using silicone which will last longer too! The cost and hassle to try to do the skin then pour the foam core led me back to just doing a foam doll in one shot.

rubherkitty · Post by **rubherkitty** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 10:05 pm

and now after all this, I think I'll just go for silicone.
I've been wanting to make a simple foam stuffed doll w/ skeleton, and thought how nice it would be to have a molded skin surface vs catsuit.
But, I'd still have to make a skeleton for either. Granted, a skeleton for a silicone doll will be much better than a foam doll.
I'll also have to make a fiberglass mold for either, but a mold for expanding foam MAY have to be even stronger than one for liquid silicone.
My doll model plug for a foam doll would not have to be quite as detailed as for a silicone doll though.
But, I could probably live w/a stuffed foam doll as it would not require making a model or mold.
I'm mainly interested in a foam doll to try some body animatronics, so would need a zipper access to the center anyway.

AI_Pimp · Post by **AI_Pimp** » Sat Jun 22, 2019 9:04 pm

Hey Vato,

First, let say how inspired I am in witnessing your projects progress. That being said, forgive the question if it's already been answered or implied, as I am very tired today and only have enough energy to merely skim threads. My question: Is what you're sculpting the doll itself or is it the model you're going to cast for a mold?

Best regards,

AI_Pimp

CicadaSound80 · Post by **CicadaSound80** » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:22 pm

If you are able to get the same level of detail on the concept art, this doll would be absolutely unbelievably arousing as a bubble-headed nurse from Silent Hill.