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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:24 am 
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winterwarBo wrote:
CrazyCajun wrote:
I am really happy to hear that it went well and the plates worked ok, and yea; it seems that every surgery is in fact a learning experience, some not too good. But it is because we love our ladies that we do the very best that we can for them! Even dolls from the same manufacturer that are only a few months apart can have very different internal arrangements and connection methods. This makes it very difficult to fabricate replacement parts and be sure that they will work as intended!


They worked perfectly. These are a great idea! I can't thank you enough for developing them. I will work on a better solution then the wires. something has to exist.

I understand that this is a learning experience. I never worked with Thermo Plastics like this before. So I was way out of my element. These dolls are well thought out. Once the mesh crap is out of the way its pretty easy work to get at everything. I think I spent an hour alone sealing up the wound. I just wasn't expecting that hinge to have the head of the Machine screw tack welded.

With the loop at the end of the wire soldered and the insulation still on. a light coating of Vaseline slide them right in. Jinsan made these really well. They honestly tried. Better than most of the stuff I see made anymore.

Now I have one under my belt I can do the right hand next. I was glad after having to grind and making her hands look like she was helping me work on my 1966 Chevy Panel truck that she cleaned up good.


I suppose that screw it was tack welded so it does not come real loose over time. Good job. My back yard fix is plodding along. Just using household stuff. Cheap fix, but not as cheap as what was removed. thin thin wire wrapped in string or whatever is not a long lasting design.
As Crazycajun says, if it works it is not wrong. :)
Well done sir!! Now you are a hand fixing veteran!! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:26 pm 
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I feel like a hack... The skeleton I am confident in working on, it's the TPE that I am totally in the dark with. It's uncharted territory.

My boss made Prosthetics for working for Harry Lawall's I showed him the crap I took out of Janie's left hand. He laughed saying "What the hell is that shit!" I told him the problem and he was like that's not how a artificial hand works. And he basically described to me joint like the ones for the Antennas on old SW radios. I know that I could miniaturize it however not sure on how durable it will be.. I think I could make it from Stainless rod stock. Aluminum would be ideal for weight, but I know aluminum that small will take ZERO abuse. Also the gripping power-ease of motion might not be as good as wire. This is why engineers get shit thrown at them by the fabricator. Engineers figure the best compromise Cost/Weight/Strength/Size. Any Compromise is a going to come to an inferior resolution. If the wires were solid at the base in the original handplate I think they would have held up a little better. I bet that was what they were trying to achieve with the spring wrapped around it.

I came home from work and checked Janie's Hand. It is pretty damn solid with the romex. I am tempted to try something slightly modified on her right hand. But i know the same problem is going to occur with the bending. Wire being bent in the same spot can only take so much tension and compression before work hardening.


Attachments:
i-limb-hand.gif
i-limb-hand.gif [ 20.48 KiB | Viewed 127 times ]

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Kat ~ WM 140D Tanned #36 ~ 10-24-16
Janie ~ WM 161G Fair #53 ~ 12-5-16
Quinn ~ 155D Natural #46 (Copy of a WM) 11-2-17
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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:42 pm 
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winterwarBo wrote:
I feel like a hack... The skeleton I am confident in working on, it's the TPE that I am totally in the dark with. It's uncharted territory.

My boss made Prosthetics for working for Harry Lawall's I showed him the crap I took out of Janie's left hand. He laughed saying "What the hell is that shit!" I told him the problem and he was like that's not how a artificial hand works. And he basically described to me joint like the ones for the Antennas on old SW radios. I know that I could miniaturize it however not sure on how durable it will be.. I think I could make it from Stainless rod stock. Aluminum would be ideal for weight, but I know aluminum that small will take ZERO abuse. Also the gripping power-ease of motion might not be as good as wire. This is why engineers get shit thrown at them by the fabricator. Engineers figure the best compromise Cost/Weight/Strength/Size. Any Compromise is a going to come to an inferior resolution. If the wires were solid at the base in the original handplate I think they would have held up a little better. I bet that was what they were trying to achieve with the spring wrapped around it.

I came home from work and checked Janie's Hand. It is pretty damn solid with the romex. I am tempted to try something slightly modified on her right hand. But i know the same problem is going to occur with the bending. Wire being bent in the same spot can only take so much tension and compression before work hardening.


Stainless steel? Wallets open!! empty. Yes that is a cool design!! Some sort of plastic like they make car bumpers out of. Molding it all is where empty wallets wont get it done!
Congratulations on the new fabbed hand. I too made a discovery today as well. Dug a bit deeper up her arm. her whole hand removes. Maybe you told me this??? Maybe you did, but I did not quite understand :)


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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:45 pm 
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RGC_0767 wrote:
Stainless steel? Wallets open!! empty. Yes that is a cool design!! Some sort of plastic like they make car bumpers out of. Molding it all is where empty wallets wont get it done!
Congratulations on the new fabbed hand. I too made a discovery today as well. Dug a bit deeper up her arm. her whole hand removes. Maybe you told me this??? Maybe you did, but I did not quite understand :)


Stainless rod is cheap. 1/8" x 6' is like $9 Its the time making the joints. it can be done. not sure if I want to bother because the time involved isn't saving anything.

How was the hand attached? Threaded on the forearm?



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Kat ~ WM 140D Tanned #36 ~ 10-24-16
Janie ~ WM 161G Fair #53 ~ 12-5-16
Quinn ~ 155D Natural #46 (Copy of a WM) 11-2-17
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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:27 pm 
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winterwarBo wrote:
RGC_0767 wrote:
Stainless steel? Wallets open!! empty. Yes that is a cool design!! Some sort of plastic like they make car bumpers out of. Molding it all is where empty wallets wont get it done!
Congratulations on the new fabbed hand. I too made a discovery today as well. Dug a bit deeper up her arm. her whole hand removes. Maybe you told me this??? Maybe you did, but I did not quite understand :)


Stainless rod is cheap. 1/8" x 6' is like $9 Its the time making the joints. it can be done. not sure if I want to bother because the time involved isn't saving anything.

How was the hand attached? Threaded on the forearm?

Yes unscrews from the forearm. There is a lot of resistance on the TPE. I had gotten flustered so I pull the skin back more fighting resistance...HeY! what was that.. saw a weld first then the nut.. when feeling from the outside as you know, it's hard to tell what is what
Attachment:
New-Hand.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Intriguing. Can you find out what thread that is?



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Kat ~ WM 140D Tanned #36 ~ 10-24-16
Janie ~ WM 161G Fair #53 ~ 12-5-16
Quinn ~ 155D Natural #46 (Copy of a WM) 11-2-17
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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:44 pm 
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winterwarBo wrote:
Intriguing. Can you find out what thread that is?

Not sure of thread, but it's a 14mm wrench
Attachment:
Wristnut.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:42 pm 
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Ok I did the right hand I filled in the gap with some tpe but I need to get a versa tool. It’s a nice tool to have anyways and not expensive. Same issue as the left all 4 finger broken at the hand plate and the wrist had the head of the machine screw welded and not the nut.. weird... why would they do that?

She was a good patient! And is asking me to put a movie on the roku. She can actually hold a real firearm in both hands I never had a doll that could grip one firmly enough. The fingers were too wimpy to hold any weight the object would just bend them away with gravity working against whatever she was trying to hold.

I am more than happy with this. Even with her scars I am happy I did this. This is not something for everyone to attempt I tried using some TPE bond but that wasn’t working so I filled and used the soldering iron.

Attachment:
IMG_0898.jpg
IMG_0898.jpg [ 1.74 MiB | Viewed 105 times ]


Attachment:
IMG_0902.jpg
IMG_0902.jpg [ 1.86 MiB | Viewed 105 times ]



_____________________________
Kat ~ WM 140D Tanned #36 ~ 10-24-16
Janie ~ WM 161G Fair #53 ~ 12-5-16
Quinn ~ 155D Natural #46 (Copy of a WM) 11-2-17
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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:50 am 
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@winterwarBo; Looks like you did a very GOOD job, for having only a soldering iron, "Temp Controlled" you did extremely well. What makes the versa tool very good for working with TPE is not only the ability to "Control the Temperature, VERY IMPORTANT" but more so the assortment of tips that are available for it! Oh, it doesn't have a digital readout either, but does hold temp pretty well, and you must put a piece of tape over the knob once set because it will move really easily. But it is definitely a VERSATILE tool to have!

Also, in one of your posts you touched on something that is very important to anyone considering doing any kind of repair to a TPE partner. Usually the repair it self is the simple part. it is closing the wound after that is the hard part!

(1): Immediately before attempting to close the would, clean it with rubbing alcohol "I know this has been frowned upon by some" but it isn't like you are doing this on a regular basis and it does work very well.
(2): whether you are using heat or glue/solvent please make sure you have adequate ventilation, I harp on this a lot, but it is important!
(3): Figure at least twice the amount of time that you think you will need for the procedure. AND DON'T RUSH, if you need to you can stop at any point and pick up again when you feel more confident or less nervous or whatever! She/He really won't mind!
(4): And this is a big one; PRACTICE FIRST, PRACTICE FIRST, PRACTICE FIRST! :thumbs_up: The closing is the hardest part of almost any repair.
(5): You really do not need a very big incision! TPE stretches a LOT! You only need a way to hold it open enough to work. The smaller the incision, the better in the end!

I sincerely hope that these tips can/will help some one some how!

@RGC_0767; You and CC are correct "If it works it's not wrong" Doesn't mean it is great or even very good, but not wrong! As long as we understand that statement we can IMPROVE!

Dolls have come a long way in a short time! For the last few years though it seems that the most annoying problems are being solved First by Owners and then after it is proven to be a better design the manufacturers attempt to copy it and often still don't get it right!!!! :roll:



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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 7:22 am 
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Thank You April!!! I took my time, it was fairly straight forward once I figured out what I was in for.

I see the same problem on musical instruments. Companies that have been making them for over 100 years make a good product, correct 99% of the defects then all of a sudden wham... They start making production mistakes that I only see on stuff they made in the 1950s... The one company point blank said that "Our instruments are meant to only play out of the box. If the customer likes it, it is up the them to let their Technician set it up." Which is fine if they told the public that.

I look at our ladies like they are the stepping stone to A.I. Living machines. They are still new uncharted territory manufacturing these, also the Language barrier is part of the problem too. Jinsan has been around what 5-7 years. Within the next 5-7 years I can see Abyss Creations making a full walking talking living doll. Even if not revealed to the public it might be in prototype form. He has the venture capitol. Unless Hyundai teamed up with a company like Sili to put one of their robots into a doll I can't see anyone else doing it before them. That will be the next leap forward.



_____________________________
Kat ~ WM 140D Tanned #36 ~ 10-24-16
Janie ~ WM 161G Fair #53 ~ 12-5-16
Quinn ~ 155D Natural #46 (Copy of a WM) 11-2-17
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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:33 am 
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TripleA wrote:
@winterwarBo; Looks like you did a very GOOD job, for having only a soldering iron, "Temp Controlled" you did extremely well. What makes the versa tool very good for working with TPE is not only the ability to "Control the Temperature, VERY IMPORTANT" but more so the assortment of tips that are available for it! Oh, it doesn't have a digital readout either, but does hold temp pretty well, and you must put a piece of tape over the knob once set because it will move really easily. But it is definitely a VERSATILE tool to have!

Also, in one of your posts you touched on something that is very important to anyone considering doing any kind of repair to a TPE partner. Usually the repair it self is the simple part. it is closing the wound after that is the hard part!

(1): Immediately before attempting to close the would, clean it with rubbing alcohol "I know this has been frowned upon by some" but it isn't like you are doing this on a regular basis and it does work very well.
(2): whether you are using heat or glue/solvent please make sure you have adequate ventilation, I harp on this a lot, but it is important!
(3): Figure at least twice the amount of time that you think you will need for the procedure. AND DON'T RUSH, if you need to you can stop at any point and pick up again when you feel more confident or less nervous or whatever! She/He really won't mind!
(4): And this is a big one; PRACTICE FIRST, PRACTICE FIRST, PRACTICE FIRST! :thumbs_up: The closing is the hardest part of almost any repair.
(5): You really do not need a very big incision! TPE stretches a LOT! You only need a way to hold it open enough to work. The smaller the incision, the better in the end!

I sincerely hope that these tips can/will help some one some how!

@RGC_0767; You and CC are correct "If it works it's not wrong" Doesn't mean it is great or even very good, but not wrong! As long as we understand that statement we can IMPROVE!

Dolls have come a long way in a short time! For the last few years though it seems that the most annoying problems are being solved First by Owners and then after it is proven to be a better design the manufacturers attempt to copy it and often still don't get it right!!!! :roll:


Spot on!! I have taken my sweet time with LuAnnes hand repair. I do not care if it takes me a week. I'm enjoying it. That is what this is all about. Having a bit of fun and learning new things. When I get frustrated. Just leave it and go back a bit later. Haste makes waste. I've had some crazy ideas since staring this repair, most are far out :)
I have a lot of spare TPE to mess up with. when you touch a hot iron to styrofoam, I guess TPE is similar POOF!! a big hole :) I've never put heat to any of it. so I'm like Captain Kirk lost on that alien planet... But Kirk usually got that girl, even if she was green :)
A "WE can" attitude will win in the end!!


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 Post subject: Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:47 pm 
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Another one of my "far out" ideas. Just a bunch of twisted copper wires. Based on what I removed from LuAnne that was factory. Take an idea and run with it. It MAY just work. It's a lighter weight idea anyway. Then the first hand modded for her lol. that's quite stiff
Attachment:
Quadruple-Twisted-Finger-with-knuckles-LoL.jpg


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