Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
- CinnamonLover
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Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
I decided that it would be best to post the successful finger repair in a new thread and link to it from the old threads, so that the repair is at the top and not in the "middle" of several pages of ideas that culminated in a good fix.
This is basically a copy/paste of this post in the sub-board, but now with pictures and slight changes in narration. I apologize for some pictures being out of focus and not being able to get every shot I wanted. I was doing this by myself and therefore had one hand for the camera and I'm still learning this nice piece of equipment that L3fty gifted me.
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Here is a picture of the hand I repaired yesterday. I did not actually seal the incision yet, there is some epoxy that sort of spread out into the wound. I had to snip that away with little, sharp scissors, careful not to take any of her TPE with it. I have the wound emptied now and am following instructions BCD has for TPE repair. Note there is also a video on SRSD's site about TPE repair that I will be linking to below.
Cinnamon is a WM170 M-cup TPE doll. Like many others, she has a short, hollow palm plate filled with cement. Thumb and pinkie fingers are apparently attached through the side of the plate (more to come as I work on her thumbs) and the three middle fingers are attached through the end of the plate. In Cinnamon's case, the copper wire has parted right at or near the palm plate for both thumbs and all six "middle" fingers. Both pinkies remain attached and functional as of this post.
1) I opened her palm along the line of the palm plate. There was much crystallized cement to clear away. 2) I had been sent a video (not sure how to share, it may be too big to post) from WM through Sexy Real Sex Dolls that showed how they remove finger wires. You basically hold the broken/torn end of the copper wire with pliers and pull as if turning the finger inside out, then forcefully smooth the TPE away from the wire and surrounding thread. At first it doesn't look or feel like it is going to work, but eventually it worked just like in their video. The finger was nearly pulled inside-out but it popped back into place easily with a little encouragement. VERY floppy without its copper wire.
Here is a link to SRSD's website with the video. There are several videos on the page. Note that the one in question is a little past half way down and is called How to Fix Fingers in a TPE Sex Doll
3) Just like in the video I used a drill to dug into the opening into the palm plate, then used needle-nose and regular pliers to pull the crud and stubs of copper wire out of the palm plate. I used pieces of tape to capture the small residue, cleaning the inside of her hand as well as I could. 4) Once the palm plate was emptied of all three stubs and the inside of her hand was as clean as I could reasonably get it, I inserted cut-to-size lengths of 12-gauge, insulated, stranded copper electrical cable into her fingers. It went in very smoothly, no Vaseline required. I chose 12-gauge based on tests at Lowes (I could not find the rubber twist ties, so I could not test their resistance and feel). The 12 gauge seemed best for the kind of resistance and pose-ability I was looking for. I almost went with 10, but it was harder to find. 14 was a little too soft. I chose insulated because first of all that's all there was, but second I like the insulation as an additional strengthening agent for the copper within, and I figured it would protect the TPE in case the stranded wires ... parted. (see how I avoid the break/snap/tear argument? But then I just brought it up. Sheesh. Stupid) I chose stranded over solid because I felt the copper would last longer, and the possibility is that even if one of the strands parts, its fellows will remain intact and continue to lend strength and duration before I have to do this all over again. 5) I sized all three fingers by putting the "stems" into the palm plate and making sure they would go in far enough. I had to do some trimming because the fingers looked too long, and I am still concerned the wires may be too long and may have finger pokes, but at this point I'm becoming more confident with repairs and pokes will be easy after this. Hopefully they won't happen anyway.
6) I am sure most epoxies would be up to this job, but someone specifically mentioned a brand called Araldite and as I was about to go to L3fty's meet-up and was feeling Amazon-lazy, I simply ordered some online. I mixed and applied using the provided paddle. I'd actually removed the middle finger stem to make it easier to get enough epoxy into the palm plate, and once it was full, re-inserted the middle stem. The instructions mentioned holding everything for 5-10 minutes so I got everyone as comfortable as they could be, positioned as naturally as I could, and held all together with my right hand. Browsed Pinterest with my left hand, on my phone. Killing time. Cool castles, a few Millenium Falcon pics, a dark elf or two, and an avocado recipe later, 10 minutes had evaporated. All seemed to be holding well, in fact the epoxy appears to have sealed the palm incision too, though it is not "soft" so I may have to trim it away and re-seal the wound. We'll see. 7) An overnight cure is desired (the long cure was something like 10 hours so that is going to be overnight). I have not sealed either incision yet, as mentioned I'm doing the "three days oil, fourth day glue" method I just read from BCD. However, the epoxy really seems to be holding everything in place and the wound almost looks closed most of the time.
The first hand I did has performed admirably. The fingers are easy to pose, look much more natural, do not flop (except the thumbs which I haven't done yet) and I'm very pleased. I admit I'm pretty careful with posing and hands so I don't know how much stress they've been put under yet, but I will certainly keep this thread updated.
Upon reflection I would say this is a moderate to advanced fix. It involved incisions, cleaning, removing skeleton parts, drilling out old cement and clearing stubs, inserting new skeleton parts, trimming, epoxy, and eventually TPE glue to seal everything up. It took me about 90 minutes all told, not including the overnight cure.
- RC3291
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
- CinnamonLover
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
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- RC3291
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
I can imagine the surgery was a bit stressful for both of you. I hope Holly is just as happy after her surgery.CinnamonLover wrote:If you mean the picture where you can just see part of her face, well no. She was currently going through surgery. However, she has been very patient waiting for this repair and DAMN she was ... uh ... "very happy" after I was done. Showed her appreciation and giddiness over having fixed fingers with extreme enthusiasm.
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
One small step for Doll owners, one giant leap for Dollkind!
Von Rubber
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
Please let us know if the wires break again over time.
I was thinking about doing this, too and this is one of the biggest reasons why I don't buy a new doll at the moment.
A video of the finger movement would be great, too.
There are some ways to improve even this solution as it will break in the palm region one day again I think.
If manufacturers would do what you did in production it would definitively be better than most solutions on the market.
Spending 10-20$ more for the skeleton would be a huge difference in motion and durability because the skeletons are pretty cheap.
Nice looking dolls with underdeveloped skeletons - I don't think any customer wants to buy this again if he experiences the crap he bought...
Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
I agree 100%Mr Franz wrote:The giant leap will be when doll hands are made better and repairs like that aren't necessary.
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
As crazy as it sounds, when not in use, it might be best to keep the dolls hands in a fist.
Why?
For most dolls, the wires attach to the hand plate 1/2 an inch above the knuckles. If the fingers are straight and you hit them, it puts alot more torque/force on the pivot point of rotation....and guess what? That is where the fingers are welded, but if you very carefully make her hands into a first, things change alot.
It is sort of like holding a 10 lb weight with your arms parallel to the ground vs 6 inches from your body. The weight is still the same, but the distance from the pivot point of rotation is less.
We are working on another method and the video talked about can also be found in the honeymoon guide.
Best,
Jeff and Nyoko
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
I agree 200%david 68 wrote:I agree 100%Mr Franz wrote:The giant leap will be when doll hands are made better and repairs like that aren't necessary.
But still, for myriad of Doll owners, including myself, knowing there is a way to fix the hands is a huge relief. I don't want to trash my first Doll (Svetlana) only because she has floppy fingers. I may try to repair her first before doing this. So Thank you CinnamonLover for having had the courage to do it. I was tempted myself more than once, but like many I Imagine, I was waiting for someone else to do the... first small step.
But yes, it's about time the manufacturers fix this issue.
Von Rubber
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- CinnamonLover
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
Obviously three days is hardly long enough for a true report, but so far things are looking good.
The only problem to bring up is that I may not have trimmed the wires enough. Her fingers look slightly longer than I remember - but that may be because they're no longer floppy? The TPE is VERY elastic, in a wonderfully sturdy way, so I think if anyone is going to try this kind of repair, it would be all too easy to have the wires stretching the fingers a tad. No poke-through or anything so maybe it's right after all.
I can report she has pretty good grip...
I'll leave it at that for the moment. Don't want to break any TDF rules by trying to take and share pics.
I have not attempted the thumb repairs yet. As other people have pointed out, the "flesh" is thicker there and I'm not 100% sure where to make the incision, and in any case I can't get Cinnamon out most weekends so would have to wait for next week anyway.
Also, as I've probably said too much, I had a chance to go to my first meet-up and while there I was able to study a few silicone dolls. I'd never actually seen one before, and their hands are clearly different. They are much larger, but also seem much sturdier. Can anyone speak to the difference in the skeleton of a silicone hand vs. a TPE hand? Is it possible if that technology/design already exists for silicone they could port it over to TPE? Obviously I don't know much about it so there could be a host of reasons that can't happen.
- Tyr
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
Well done
Tyr.
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My 'e' key is getting sticky, so now and thn words may look a bit odd.
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
For any of us that use TPE glue, we all know it leaves a scar/scab, but this might be reduced if the area is saturated with baby oil for a three to four days.
More to come
Jeff and Nyoko
-princeoverit. One vendor name kept coming up as being great at helping customers walk through the process, Booty Call Dolls. So I decided I would work with them on this first purchase, and did.
-Just in timeYou could not of found a better person to help you with your first doll. Jeff /Booty call dolls, knows his stuff... One of the few members that is a vendor and a real lover of dolls. He owns quite a few dolls, and really understands the love we all share.
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Re: Successful Advanced Finger Repair!
Thanks Tyr! I hope your repair goes well.Booty Call Dolls wrote:Luckily, the incisions can be made where they are out of sight most of the time.
For any of us that use TPE glue, we all know it leaves a scar/scab, but this might be reduced if the area is saturated with baby oil for a three to four days.
More to come
Jeff and Nyoko
YES! BCD I'm actually following the instructions you laid out elsewhere on TDF - the several day soak and then "sewing back up". I talked to samara78 and have had very good practice sessions with the extra TPE piece that was sent. Like most things, you have to take your time to do it right but the results can be amazing.