Sales on TDF forum Rule changes

Post by **AlexKnight** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:24 pm

haremlover wrote:It's worth mentioning here that the current soft silicone DS dolls and such soft dolls from other manufacturers too are very specifically made aiming towards sexual satisfaction. I'm very much looking forward to putting a soft silicone doll through her paces in the photographic department . . .

Spedfish might appreciate such a comment on his sale, but others would not.
A seller doesn't need someone coming on their sale thread pointing out the doll they're trying to sell does NOT have the soft silicone new dolls have, and therefore isn't as great in the sack as the new dolls.
Even though you try your best to emphasize the benefits of a doll with harder silicone as a photography model, someone with money in hand looking to buy a doll for sex could be chased away, which is not in the interest of the seller.

A lot of posts are made with the best intentions, but often leads to a devaluation of the item for sale or points interested parties to different dolls for sale, which is great for those new to dolls so they make the right decision and buy the doll that's right for them, but that is not something a seller wants to see in his sale thread.

The primary goal of a sales thread is to make a sale, nothing else.

The sales section is not the place to enlighten members about what is available and whether they're making the right choice, that's what the rest of the forum is good for.
If buyers don't want to do their homework nor invest time researching the doll they're looking at and pay too much, or buy the wrong doll for them, that ultimately isn't the sellers problem.

How does it help a seller make a sale if people come on their thread telling less experienced members they should look at another doll. Short answer, it doesn't.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:35 pm

AlexKnight wrote: Spedfish might appreciate such a comment on his sale, but others would not.

With respect, openness of information leads to everyone being satisfied, knowing what they are buying, with no recriminations which can lead to ugly threads afterwards.

The fact is that these dolls have been tried and tested in environments that ordinary dolls won't dare to go. That's an important advantage and one that adds to a sale.

Situations like this are where it's perfectly open to anyone to PM a poster or a mod asking for an edit as appropriate and I would submit that the collective knowledge understanding and experience, intelligence in a military sense, on a subject is wider and more valuable than that either to be filtered by an individual, or even of a seller himself especially where the item for sale is of minority understanding such as Johndside's Dahlia.

Best wishes

Harem

johndside · Post by **johndside** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:57 pm

haremlover wrote:
rubherkitty wrote:Harem, I'm sure all your replies express the best of intentions. If all the replies to buy and sell post were positive, that would be nice, but there are many that are slams and put downs. And the mods have time to referee all this?
For those that are inappropriate member moderation can easily suffice with the [!] to draw it to mods attentions. To create more admin work and to remove community expertise seems a retrograde step.

Sometimes a degree of expression of community opinion is appropriate as was in the instance where someone was trying to sell body parts that looked as though they'd been part of an explosion or chain-saw-massacre.

The contribution of members to for sale threads can be a matter both of encouragement as well as protection for less experienced members.

In my personal opinion I think we've seen members on TDF getting the best possible opportunities to sell their dolls for the best possible prices to date, but in the new environment without appropriate encouragement being possible it's not going to be so effective.

The threads will be as dry as merely "PM sent" which used to be the ones formerly criticised.

Hostage - I think we speak the same language!

Best wishes

Harem

I also agree with Harem. He has tried to help me with my sale by giving other's information that I was not aware of being new to dolls, and I have seen other posts where he and other's have also helped. It's too bad to shut out people on this forum that have information that can help a buyer decide on their own with a little more knowledge than they might have had before.

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:19 pm

AlexKnight wrote:
haremlover wrote:It's worth mentioning here that the current soft silicone DS dolls and such soft dolls from other manufacturers too are very specifically made aiming towards sexual satisfaction. I'm very much looking forward to putting a soft silicone doll through her paces in the photographic department . . .
Spedfish might appreciate such a comment on his sale, but others would not.
A seller doesn't need someone coming on their sale thread pointing out the doll they're trying to sell does NOT have the soft silicone new dolls have, and therefore isn't as great in the sack as the new dolls.
Even though you try your best to emphasize the benefits of a doll with harder silicone as a photography model, someone with money in hand looking to buy a doll for sex could be chased away, which is not in the interest of the seller.

A lot of posts are made with the best intentions, but often leads to a devaluation of the item for sale or points interested parties to different dolls for sale, which is great for those new to dolls so they make the right decision and buy the doll that's right for them, but that is not something a seller wants to see in his sale thread.

The primary goal of a sales thread is to make a sale, nothing else.

The sales section is not the place to enlighten members about what is available and whether they're making the right choice, that's what the rest of the forum is good for.
If buyers don't want to do their homework nor invest time researching the doll they're looking at and pay too much, or buy the wrong doll for them, that ultimately isn't the sellers problem.

How does it help a seller make a sale if people come on their thread telling less experienced members they should look at another doll. Short answer, it doesn't.

Shit I had to endure that shit! where the hell were u When so many people devalued my doll?

Post by **AlexKnight** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:25 pm

Before yesterday, that "shit" was completely allowed in sales threads, and after receiving more complaints about that, it led us to making this change.

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:35 pm

I am sorry. That was a time when people where shitting on TPE. Also the potential buyers nit picked and made it seem a blemish was a deal breaker. I was pulling my hair out trying to repair everything and smooth things over. I had to put in more work which should have justified my asking price. These buyers where so finicky. The slightest disagreement they would walk away and tell everyone to not buy from you.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:45 pm

Tybalt wrote:I am sorry. That was a time when people where shitting on TPE. . . .

I don't recall experienced members being responsible for your woes, and such issues should not in my opinion occlude the benefit of balanced comment.

There were at some stage clever-dicks commenting on a post that with special offers something was available on a private deal with a vendor cheaper than a second hand sale - but those issues are capable of being dealt with individually rather than comprehensively prohibitively.

My personal experience is that other than the obscure make of TPE Dahlia doll which demonstrates significant longevity, buyers should be careful buying second hand but unless I am mistaken I have not trolled the For Sale posts to say so.

POSTSCRIPT: I am reminded that thanks to this rule not having been in place a group of members were able to communicate on the relevant FOR SALE thread to club together to help a fellow member to avoid having to sell his doll and a loan of over $1500 rescued the doll and the member. It is such fraternity which attracts people to a forum and a worthwhile hobby. It might be argued that the rescue plan could have been put together on another thread - in an obscure part of the forum - 'nuff said? The FOR SALE part of the forum was the only place of high enough profile that everyone goes to for the successful outcome to have been achieved.

Best wishes

Harem

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:09 pm

The vendors where having a seasonal sale and for the record my doll asking price was still cheaper than the sales price by $200.

There were so many people stating my asking price was too high. I sell things on ebay often and I get prospects who think they are hot shots who buy to flip and make $ so I would get many many low ball offers for my comic books, baseball card, mtg cards, wh40k, dakimakura, and other collectibles. I set the price high because theses hot shots dont know the true value and they think they can pressure and hustle me.

I was going to troll everyone's sales who made dick comments on my sales but I forgot as I did not care for petty vengeance. Also most of those people never sold a doll so I never had the chance to make dick comments and sabotage there sales.

This rules changed would have help me then but now it just means I cant troll the sales forum but i dont really care too. Also what about comments that are res ispa loquitur? The damage in the photo speaks for itself and the seller did not openly mentioned it. Am I barred from pointing out the obvious that the seller failed to mention?

Just let me use the truth as my defense to fight libel.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:34 pm

Tybalt wrote:There were so many people stating my asking price was too high.

Apart from the points raised above, especially the ability to have been able to help a member out, the flip side of your post is that there was in living memory a PIB offered in rather bad condition where the asking price was indeed too high. There was jostling in the marketplace and a member who had sold the doll before at half the new asking price trolled the sale. It was a situation which wasn't pretty and neither seller nor troller were entirely

. . . but I am sure that those sorts of issues can be handled editorially rather than under blanket application of constriction. The result was that a newish member was spared buying what would have turned out to be trouble.

The ability to comment allows a balance to help both buyer and seller. In seeing responses too, people coming to the for sale section can also determine whether they are seeing characteristics with which they would like to do business with. There has to be trust between buyer and seller and seeing how people manouevre in the course of barter gives an indication of character invisible in a sterile communication whereas in the jostle of the real world

one has an immediate picture of the sort of person one's dealing with.

Best wishes

Harem

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:46 pm

What ever. I lost my list and i dont care to find it. To everyone who is going to enjoy this benefit in selling

Welcome to the rules change. I do not wish to argue against it. I hope this rule stays. I wish this rule was established many months ago.

Wireman wrote on my sales thread,"Posting a for sale ad on this forum is brutal. I feel sorry for the seller(s) for all the scrutiny displayed from all the non-purchasing members in these matters."

I use this to support the rules change.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:13 pm

Tybalt wrote: Wireman wrote on my sales thread,"Posting a for sale ad on this forum is brutal. I feel sorry for the seller(s) for all the scrutiny displayed from all the non-purchasing members in these matters."

Buying a doll can lose someone a lot of money. There are dolls whose sellers are less than honourable. There was a doll recently where thanks to observant members attention was drawn to the poor lady's breasts having been ripped off at some stage. The ability to comment on such things not specifically drawn to attention by sellers is extremely important.

http://www.uklovedollforums.co.uk/forum ... stcount=29 demonstrates the value of member interaction with a seller. It turned out that that particular member was selling the fake WM dolls.

Best wishes

Harem

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:30 pm

Your link further supports Moderator intervention. I still think comments need to be approved by moderators and if a comment is material to the sales decision or if the seller is being called out on not having good faith then the moderator needs to step in and investigate a bit before such falsehood scares off potential buyers.

When I first started selling my doll, I had a lot to learn. I had to learn to be polite and humble and truthful. I had some rejections due to my manners. Sellers that fails to understand this should not be chastised but given a chance to make amends and try again.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:39 pm

I bought

privately without forum scrutiny.

The scrutiny of other members is extremely helpful for the protection of buyers, advice, education and the achievement of a fair market price whatever the haggling.

In economics the rules of open market have proved their worth for millennia.

The best trading standards officers are within the people themselves.

Best wishes

Harem

Tybalt · Post by **Tybalt** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:47 pm

...That doesnt even compare to the conditions of my doll when she arrived haphazardly packed. I did not have photos but I did my best to repair my doll. She arrived mangled with arms and legs twisted beyond limits. Head had many tears. Arms and wrist had tears. Ankles where twisted and so was the leg. I could not hold the reseller accountable. The shipping company did not insure it because none was bought at time of shipping.

Are you sure he meant to sell u a doll with broken ankles or was it from inadequate pack and she suffered transit damages. I think your seller acted in good faith but was partially negligent in secure packing. WM did not ship their dolls with enough foam. That is why j took extra care to ship my doll with 15lbs of Cushion and foam. which taxed on $40.

I dont understand how your pictures of markets bazaar antique trinkets are relevant. When a buyer rejects to buy one day in real life, does the new buyer tomorrow get to see what was said yesterday? In these sales forums you can and each detrimental comment hurts the sale.

haremlover · Post by **haremlover** » Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:06 pm

Tybalt wrote:...That doesnt even compare to the conditions of my doll when she arrived haphazardly packed. I did not have photos but I did my best to repair my doll. She arrived mangled with arms and legs twisted beyond limits. Head had many tears. Arms and wrist had tears. Ankles where twisted and so was the leg. I could not hold the reseller accountable.

For that reason the scrutiny applied to your sale was appropriate.

The doll that I bought in poor condition was not a matter of packing but of ill-advised purchase from a newbie and without reputation off forum. Member scrutiny of a doll plays a really important part in guiding buyers. Member scrutiny of a seller's reaction also guides buyers and any inappropriate trolling is capable of being dealt with by mods on a reporting basis.

A forum should be a place where buyers can buy safely and the change of rules in my opinion changes that balance detrimentally.

Best wishes,

Harem