The Doll Forum

Please kindly re-read my post above as my English is difficult to understand.

Sam at the manufacturer WM is Chinese so his English is difficult to understand also.

This thread has developed into people advocating buying dolls from AliExpress. For the reasons below, it is not something greatly recommendable.

The manufacturer makes dolls for the international market which are produced with better quality control so that there is less liklihood of them having to be returned to the factory for repair or replacement. China market dolls are made to lower tolerances because if anything is wrong, within China they can be returned easily.

Mods - please can this thread be closed and locked to prevent further gyrations in circles.

Best wishes

Harem

haremlover wrote:Sam at WM responds now more fully confirming what I have been saying:

for oversea order doll , we will be more care and make more careful check and quality control. because when doll ship to oversea , then that is very difficult ship back . so every doll we are make more care for QC . we don't want any doll ship to oversea and get problem when customer receive .

This is very clear that if not receiving a fake from AliExpress

fake and genuine.jpg

the manufacturer confirms that local dolls are made to different standards and that therefore AliExpress market dolls are a different kettle of fish from those supplied through reputable vendors accredited with TDF.

This thread has gone around in circles and the manufacturer's confirmatory statement above should not be lost in a morass of further posts.

For that reason I recommend the thread be closed and locked.

Best wishes

Harem

Genuine export dolls, internal market dolls and fake dolls, sounds like The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Nescio50 wrote:Genuine export dolls, genuine internal market dolls and fake dolls, sounds like The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

...added bold text in the quote.

You are right! When you are looking at this as a seller, not a buyer.
Buyer himself must choose his decision by given cost and product + their ratio.

haremlover wrote:This is very clear that if not receiving a fake from AliExpress

fake and genuine.jpg

Wouldn't both look the same after makeup is washed out?

I'll be blunt here: I'm not paying extra grand for a better makeup.

shotdot wrote:I'll be blunt here: I'm not paying extra grand for a better makeup.

I'd like to agree, if quality and services was all about make-up ...

shotdot wrote: Wouldn't both look the same after makeup is washed out?

No. Not at all. The TPE is different and has a different texture. The fake has a shiny surface, more oily, and doesn't have the textural quality of skin that the genuine is finely tuned to create. It doesn't present as real whereas the genuine doll looks very real indeed, a feature often commented upon by members with genuine dolls.

If the material's not the same, it begs the question as to what material it is.

I've quoted elsewhere Andy from TDF vendor www.japaneselovetoys.com.au with whom I was talking about bad quality dolls and fakes:

they are killing the whole marketplace. It makes all buyers afraid. I read a lot on the Japanese forums and some Japanese guys have bought fake dolls from amazon japan that have given them really bad rashes and other skin issues.
Its one thing to receive a doll that is a fake its another when it affects your health. Especially during penetration if the TPE is not fully approved god know what can happen in these areas. Its nasty.

A member PM'ed me still in misunderstanding this thread. He accused me of being on the sellers' side rather than the buyers'. I replied that this was far from the truth as I've bought and paid good money for a second hand doll and a third hand head both sourced from cheapjacks and both are a waste of money and a dead loss. I've lost out wholly on account of these bad quality scammers and such dolls and their sellers are a curse upon us all.

Those who haven't experienced a good genuine doll don't know what good dolls are about, and they are a world away from the bad ones. On the UK forum there is a thread upon which I posted a warning about AliExpress cheap dolls with the demonstration photo above, and the first response says a lot:

having seen your note, I fully agree that you have to be so careful and take your time and see what the most popular buy is; as that will give you an idea. Yes these products are not cheap. I bought my 1st doll from OV doll. Its not bad but you realise once you get the doll that the pictures do not match her. Her face is much like the picture but the body is different.Her fingers are tiny, like need worms on steriods! Quality wise she is not too bad but I think to myself that maybe an extra £500 to maybe one of the other manufactures would have paid off. Am finding that Abigail has already needed surgery on her left shoulder; now needs the same on her other and now her hip has got the flapinwindititis condition!
She also got over excited one eveing and managed to dislodge her throat!
Having to do surgery on the inside of her face was a nightmare as once you take face off you are entering the twilight zone of facial distortion! Side effect are loss of eyebrows, fuckers seem to fly away! The quality on the inside of her face shows poor moulding. trying to get things right and see if she can be cute again,will see what happens over the coming days.

Whilst some will enthuse about bargains, many will bemoan the waste of money - to say nothing about emotional loss - of a bad doll.

Over the years a number of people have expressed delight about their bargains, but either bemoaned their deficiencies or to put it politely have not sustained their enthusiasm that owners of genuine dolls very often display.

Best wishes

Harem

Nescio50 wrote:I'd like to agree, if quality and services was all about make-up ...

Yes. If.
But sorry fakes has nothing to do with this my thread. It missed the point.
It was not about fakes.

The result about WMDolls, thanks to Harem's investigative work, we have now, is this:
Grade A - export
Grade B - local China market

The second part is new for me, and I am glad to know it.
I have no problem with this fact.
I knew that there are more quality grades of WMs.
Thats all.
Tanks all for input.

RGC_0767 wrote:Ali was originally set up for Asia, if I'm not mistaken...

You are true.
Things changes.
Now, it is just and only international portal.
You can not see another than Chinese seller AND
no one Chinese buyer PLUS
most of them (80% I guess) lives outside Asia,
mainly Europe and North America.
This copiers current product flow - from China, to the whole world.

This thread is going around in circles, again.

Sam Do at WM has said explicitly:

for oversea order doll , we will be more care and make more careful check and quality control. because when doll ship to oversea , then that is very difficult ship back . so every doll we are make more care for QC . we don't want any doll ship to oversea and get problem when customer receive .

That is the long and the short of the cheap genuine dolls offered on the Chinese outlets and so the dolls you receive from those outlets are either in that category, or fakes. Of course the genuine companies have no choice but to make dolls to lower quality control standards at cheaper prices for the local market to compete in that local market so as not to lose out business to the fakes.

It boggles my mind that there are two sticky threads in the SCAMS section about why it is undesirable to buy the cheap dolls from the Chinese local market outlets, and which no-one reads, and why following my posts here and Sam's definitive confirmation there is cause or need for any further speculation.

Best wishes

Harem

Please don't make this a political discussion. This was about WM differentiating between local and export market.

This isn't a political discussion.

haremlover wrote:This thread is going around in circles, again.

Sam Do at WM has said explicitly:

for oversea order doll , we will be more care and make more careful check and quality control. because when doll ship to oversea , then that is very difficult ship back . so every doll we are make more care for QC . we don't want any doll ship to oversea and get problem when customer receive .

That is the long and the short of the cheap genuine dolls offered on the Chinese outlets and so the dolls you receive from those outlets are either in that category, or fakes. Of course the genuine companies have no choice but to make dolls to lower quality control standards at cheaper prices for the local market to compete in that local market so as not to lose out business to the fakes.

It boggles my mind that there are two sticky threads in the SCAMS section about why it is undesirable to buy the cheap dolls from the Chinese local market outlets, and which no-one reads, and why following my posts here and Sam's definitive confirmation there is cause or need for any further speculation.

Best wishes

Harem

Please see sticky threads
https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 31&t=68161
https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 31&t=81630
and unsticky threads
https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 31&t=96968
http://www.uklovedollforums.co.uk/forum ... hp?t=10539

As a matter of interest I am investigating the anomalous OR head as it's stamped with what I believe to be the Jinsan head number underneath so it might be a local market head rather than a fake. If so it demonstrates very significant difference between the genuine export dolls and the local market dolls. It was sold by a TDF vendor with whom I argued some time back about selling dolls at rather too low prices. The moral of that story is that TDF can only go so far in accrediting vendors and if anyone sees any vendor selling at rather lower prices than others, it's appropriate to raise the issue. This is why the Provenance Assurance Scheme which I suggested late last year is potentially important and should be considered for possible compulsory adoption. This thread is possibly not the thread to be discussing that and further discussion should be continued in the relevant place https://www.dollforum.com/forum/viewtop ... 87&t=93077

Best wishes

Harem

A footnote to this thread is viewtopic.php?f=87&t=97002 which documents how one AliExpress seller hadn't got a clue about international shipping documentation requirements. Welcome to the world of Chinese business and buying from the Chinese local market . . .

TDF accreditation is a measure of all sorts of things including reliability and ability to deliver. There's value in it, to be ignored at one's peril.

Best wishes

Harem

haremlover wrote:A footnote to this thread is viewtopic.php?f=87&t=97002 which documents how one AliExpress seller hadn't got a clue about international shipping documentation requirements. Welcome to the world of Chinese business and buying from the Chinese local market . . .

TDF accreditation is a measure of all sorts of things including reliability and ability to deliver. There's value in it, to be ignored at one's peril.

Best wishes

Harem

Yes...But I was not going to rub that one in Harem...I think the point has been made and another member has been enlightened.

Anung

Yes - of course - but for the assistance of new people coming to this forum and doing their research it is important that the threads in the Scams section, which carry some degree of authoritative weight, are complete.

It really is very important for people to see that the homework of TDF administration in giving approval to good manufacturers and good vendors saves them risk, possibilities of loss and heartache, in the buying of a doll. Some people are fortunate to be able to acquire more than one doll and for whom potentially slipping on a banana skin once in a while is not fatally damaging but there are others who come to dolls at a low point in their lives, some a very low point, and for whom a relatively big purchase for them which then goes wrong can really add to their woes.

This is one of the reasons that for a long time I have been doing homework on anomalous dolls and bringing warnings to light accordingly. I've experienced a few disastrous dolls, luckily only one of those on my own account, and four or five on test from manufacturers. Of three from one new manufacturer, one was the most terrible falling to pieces TPE on earth, the next a little better, and the next broke on me in bed. That manufacturer is no longer in business. Of other manufacturers I've been able to make recommendations with regard to design aspects and which have been adopted. But were I to have paid good $$$$s for those dolls and got the models I received as they were before my recommendations, I'd have been devastated. Weight grossly more than stated, poor choice of materials, skeleton elements not designed for the weight of the doll, very unusable locations of private parts and the point of this is that these problems are particularly those that one finds with manufacturers working outside the TDF arena and particularly in the often rather anonymous free for all on AliExpress and the like.

As soon as manufacturers come within the ambit of TDF and the forums, any elements of deficiencies of design or construction are brought to light in the forums and resolved accordingly.

Other avenues are littered with banana skins too, and it's not just a matter of design or quality of manufacture of dolls as demonstrated by the post to which you referred, there relating to the inexperience of a vendor in the successful execution and shipping of an international, overseas, order to the satisfaction of the receiving country's border requirements.

It's for these reasons that whilst avenues beyond TDF might seduce with significant apparent attractions the work and value of TDF to the community of all enthusiasts of dolls cannot be overstated. TDF has put in place a framework as none other of known people with known credentials specifically removing the risks of dealing with the unknown.

Best wishes

Harem