Re: NOTICE to all members of TDF regarding counterfeit dolls

[Porndog20]

It may be important to keep this in perspective. The purchase of a doll, compared to many other things, is not a huge investment. For example many of us have purchased houses, cars, college educations that cost far more. There are many defective cars, poorly built houses, and worthless college degrees out there. People get ripped off all t he time. While it may be lousy to get a less than perfect doll, this is counterbalanced by the fact that your owner of that less than perfect doll probably paid half the price or less for a less than perfect version. Yous pays you money and yous takes your choice.

I recently ordered a doll which looked a lot like a WM doll. At the time I ordered it, I really did not know what a WM doll was. Since I have looked through this site, I finally looked at the WM site. Based on appearances, the WM site looks more like a scam that the vendor I purchased from.

The vendor I purchased from clearly states they are the manufacturer of the doll. Their pictures have their name on them. (I could not compare with the WM site because the link to their gallery is broken). They say they purchased the rights to the faces of their dolls from models. They claim their dolls are of high quality. At this time, I have no reason to doubt them; I also have no reason to believe them.

I did not think t he price was cheap. In fact the prices of some of these "cheap" dolls are outrageously expensive. Certainly, these dolls are not as complex as a refrigerator, a computer, a large screen television, all of which cost a fraction of what even a "cheap" doll is going for.

Yes, I am well aware that the sex business and anything related to the sex business is filled with low life scumbags. I know that the products from this business tend to be overpriced and cheaply made. It has been this way for decades, long before there were "real life" sex dolls. When you deal with people in this business, you are taking chances; much as you take chances with used car dealers, real estate brokers, automobile mechanics, and construction contractors. You just hold your breath and hope you don't get ripped off.

I think the policy of not mentioning the so called scam vendors is misguided. I say "so called" because I have seen no evidence that the claims are true. It's hard to know who you are talking about when you refuse to disclose their names. The so called scam artists apparently have never been given the opportunity to respond to these allegations. Instead, they are charged, tired, convicted and punished without ever being told of these allegations.

I am sure that a lot of people come to this site looking for honest reviews of products they may be interested in purchasing. I am one of them. However, the site is almost worthless to me because you refuse any comment on some of the very vendors I am interested in. I don't know why you don't mention them; I don't even know who they are. It would seem that if you think someone is running a scam, and you can prove it, it is incumbent to disclose what you know and how you know it.

TJStreak

[BeijaFlor]

Porndog20, I bought a doll from one of those "non-approved" vendors, before I really looked into this thread. (See my posts above, near the bottom of page #4.) It came up lacking in a couple of features that I wanted, but it wasn't actually defective and I'll have to live with it as it is. Fortunately I've figured a work-around for the biggest beef, the non-removable vagina, and other than that, 'Polythene Pam' has looks and a body that are very much to my tastes.

There's a tremendous market for these dolls, and many, many of them are being sold by manufacturers and dealers that are not listed on TDF. There are vast "dark alleys" and dodgy practices in the sex-doll business, and the supply-chains are ill-defined and often intentionally opaque. There are some well-known manufacturers who have built a reputation for making top-quality dolls, as well as resellers (like the Dollhouse) who deal in these known-to-be-reputable doll lines, and TDF has a good relationship with them -- they're the ones who are named on the forum, and yes, some of them advertise here.

This thread is about counterfeiting, and counterfeit dolls that too closely resemble the products of those reputable manufacturers (like a $50 "Rolex" watch sold on the street in a Philippines tourist-town). Copycat dolls are a theft of intellectual property, so that's bad enough; it cuts into the business of those reputable manufacturers. The seller from which I bought my doll ripped-off their photos of it from the WM website, which is a bit worse, but the doll body I got doesn't quite resemble the doll in those photos. The face of my doll, though, I think is a little different from the WM #59 head in the website's photos.

You pay your money and you take your chances. That's how it is with the doll I bought. Would I have gotten a demonstrably-better doll if I'd gone with a TDF-approved vendor? I don't know, because this is the only doll I've actually seen (other than in photos). A better doll might have a better, more durable TPE blend; it might have a better skeleton, with more pose-ability (mine has a solid, straight back, so it can't bend at the waist); it might have smoother joints that are easier to adjust while still being solid enough to hold a pose. But I paid my money and took my chances, and in my fourth day of ownership, I'm still pleased with what I got.

You won't know what you've got until that long, heavy box gets to your doorstep. I hope it's satisfactory, and I wish you the best of luck with your purchase. (Been there, done that.)

[Slew]

I think the policy of not mentioning the so called scam vendors is misguided. I say "so called" because I have seen no evidence that the claims are true. It's hard to know who you are talking about when you refuse to disclose their names. The so called scam artists apparently have never been given the opportunity to respond to these allegations. Instead, they are charged, tired, convicted and punished without ever being told of these allegations.

I am sure that a lot of people come to this site looking for honest reviews of products they may be interested in purchasing. I am one of them. However, the site is almost worthless to me because you refuse any comment on some of the very vendors I am interested in. I don't know why you don't mention them; I don't even know who they are. It would seem that if you think someone is running a scam, and you can prove it, it is incumbent to disclose what you know and how you know it.

It's not that we suspect a site and then investigate to find some special "proof" just so we can back up our preference not to discuss these sites here. We don't waste our time like this. If the price is $800 for a quote unquote "WM doll" and especially if we can immediately see that the site's pics are stolen, that's good enough for us.

We don't feel we have to prove anything, nor do we make any actual "allegations" which would be subject to response, such as in a court of law. We don't take action against these sites, we don't report them to authorities. We have a set of simple criteria we notice and if it's there, we don't allow such and such site to be linked or discussed here, that's all.

We also feel that any press is good press when it comes to doubtful sellers, counterfeits and cheap knock offs. We don't want to give these any air time here. As said, counterfeiters take business directly from the legitimate sellers and undercut what we are trying to accomplish at this forum. It's too bad if you find TDF almost worthless, but many many others find our guidance on these matters to be quite valuable. So mileage varies.

[CiraJ88]

That helps a lot thanks for explaining things to me.

[Slew]

My question, relating to this thread, before I post anything anywhere else, is whether I can post about what I got, and some of the issues, potential solutions, and get some feedback before I begin trying irreversible fixes. I might need to post pictures of bits and parts and whatnot to get the ideas across, as well. This thread seems to be telling me I am not allowed to discuss my doll at all, however, it is not completely clear, and I don't want to break any rules or cause anyone any problems.

Hi Kaori Kusanagi, welcome to the forum.

To clarify for you and I hope for any others wondering the same:

The over-arching theme we want to make clear is that discussion about cheap replica/counterfeit dolls or where to get them is not allowed per RoC #2 (rules linked at top of every page). The main purpose of this policy is to prevent marketing/promotion. We don't want to support the black market, we want to protect legitimate sellers.

At the end of the day if someone is asking for help with "a doll", we're always happy to help with questions about a doll. People may ask what kind she is, and you can easily say it was cheap and you're not sure. We understand some people didn't know about replicas and counterfeits before finding TDF.

Also, there are cheap models out there which are not necessarily counterfeits. Some are just crudely molded and made with cheaper parts and inferior craftsmanship. Just asking for help with your doll, there's no need to explain your doll's history and origin.

So for those who have landed an unfortunate purchase and want help fixing up a cheap doll, just ask the questions that are pertinent to the maintenance and leave off the bit about her price tag and the vendor you used.

There really isn't any avoidance of common sense in this policy. We can't stop people from buying cheap dolls, and we don't turn people away just because they bought a cheap doll and didn't know how all of this works.

I hope this makes sense.

[Kaori Kusanagi]

Thank you, that's clear enough to follow.

Then I'll start a thread in the repair section, and we'll see where it goes.

[seagull]

Kaori Kusanagi, I found out pretty quick on this forum that nobody cared whether I was on the spectrum or anything else, just wanted to know if I cared enough for my doll to give her the best outcome of being in my possession
Getting advice from more experienced members was invaluable for a first time owner
I went with a Kimber doll, it was local Aussie company, a very good price and Team Kimber are on this forum

[BadGrampy]

...are there serial numbers on these nexus replicants??? asking for a friend

cheers

"How can it not know what it is?"
'Blade Runner' (Artificial Human hunter and killer) Deckard to Eldon Tyrell, principal owner and leading genetic designer at Tyrell Corporation, about the "Replicant" (artificial human) after testing a female Nexus 6 Replicant that seems to think she is a human.
Blade Runner 1982
Carry on...

[Dickjohnson]

Is there a vendor whitelist/blacklist?

[Nescio50]

Is there a vendor whitelist/blacklist?

Our list of manufacturers and vendors at TDF could be regarded as white list: viewforum.php?f=68

We don't really have a black list, except for the Banned Site list: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=39858, most bans are because of clear reports of bait and switch, copyright infringements, and non-delivery.

Nowadays there are so many vendors, all wanting a piece of the pie, it is hard to tell which are fine and which are wrong. The sellers listed at TDF are vetted, they are trustworthy!

[djoapplejuice]

What are some ways to tell if you have a fake?

[AhMyDolless]

What are some ways to tell if you have a fake?

If you find yourself on Alibaba or similar site (and that's just for starters) and see a 140cm doll and up that costs under $1000 then.... yeah, that's an advertisement for a scam right there. That's why they do it because the prey on the intersection where impulse buy meets horniess level between the hours of 1-3am.

[66gt350]

Good day all,
I'm a newbie here and unfortunately my first experience was pretty bad. Should have done more research before buying and wish I had found this site first. Clearly there are vetted vendors links on this site and I'm about to pull the trigger on a second doll. The first was absolutely nothing as advertised.
I'm wondering after reading a few posts, is it permissible to call out counterfeit doll sellers by name with the intent of warning others? Or should the examples be kept ambiguous? In general, I purchased a supposed WM from a vendor, paid what I thought was a decent price (thinking as a newbie) and what I received was a horrible facsimile. the booklet that came with this unit says, "entity doll" though this was not the "vendor" in question.
This dolls body was at best vaguely close to the photos as was the head. The odor from the thing was a total limp inflicting situation. Wig was wrong, heating plug was NOT for the USA, moaning charge port looked like something for a 20 yr old cell phone. fingernails fell off right away, wire poking through the fingers, the standing feet were not 3 point as we see in photos. They were flat, short metal pads that tore through the feet right away. This thing couldn't stand at all. And positioning the thing seems to require wrestling. The requested tan skin tone was funky and unnatural.
Money wasted...around 1800 all said and done.
Incidentally, the second doll is likely to be from BD. Anna was quite helpful in discussions about a new doll and graciously offered a substantial discount in light of the first one going so horribly.
Comments and advise are most welcome.

[Slew]

I'm wondering after reading a few posts, is it permissible to call out counterfeit doll sellers by name with the intent of warning others? Or should the examples be kept ambiguous?

Hi and welcome, sorry to hear of your experience. If you want to warn others, our Scam Alerts forum is the place to do it: viewforum.php?f=131 You can either search that forum to see if a topic already exists on the seller in question, or you can just make a new topic.

[66gt350]

Thank you, I’ll do that. It was very discouraging given the investment