What skeleton do I have?

MattUK · Post by **MattUK** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:55 pm

Well... not me personally, but Hannah. She was only "born" in August/September this year, and I was told I would be getting the new skeleton with shrugging shoulders and jointed neck, but I'm not sure...

The problem is that no matter what I do, I can't get her shoulders to shrug at all. I've asked about this before and was recommended to bend her arms up and out to the side and put pressure on the whole upper arm, but when I do this her arm just continues to bend upwards at the shoulder joint, it doesn't shrug at all. So I'm just not sure I have the right skeleton.

But she can bend sideways at her waist joint, as well as swivelling and forwards and backwards, as you can see here

Hannah7.jpg

And my understanding is that only the new skeletons can do this? So surely she must have the shrugging shoulders?

I'm also not sure what neck she has. I've read about the old gooseneck, and the new jointed necks, but I really don't know the details or how to tell them apart. All I know is that the gooseneck can make a noise, and Hannah's certainly seems to make a noise... in terms of the attachment it looks like the one here if that means anything - viewtopic.php?f=215&t=107960

Zippy81 · Post by **Zippy81** » Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:40 pm

The shoulder joint might just be super tight. This is how I move them on my dolls. Make sure you move the shoulders back down to their original position after you are done. You don't want to leave the armpit shoulder area stretched in a funky position as it will wear out the material in those areas.

I usually put the hand that's located near armpit underneath the arm/pit area and the other hand that's near the elbow on the top of the arm.

To put the shoulder back down (unshrugged) you just put the arm out at the same angle and hold near the elbow and push down on the shoulder joint.

Hannah7 copy.jpg

Gooseneck makes a creaky crunchy noise if/when you move the doll or the neck at all.

Hinged neck only makes a creaky/pop noise when you move it and is a bit stiff at first where as the goose neck is easy to move right out of the box.

grimreefer24601 · Post by **grimreefer24601** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:33 am

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I just got Jinsan to send me these images. I'm trying to get a complete skeleton without TPE. Hopefully Jinsan can supply it for me.

These pictures show a lot however. I hope these help. Hopefully I can get a full skeleton, and show more of how it works.

Grim

Anung Un Rama · Post by **Anung Un Rama** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 3:51 am

Well done Grim and Zippy81, you saved me about twenty minutes right there. Good feedback and advice

Anung

Zippy81 · Post by **Zippy81** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:06 am

Thanks

MattUK · Post by **MattUK** » Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:58 pm

Wow! Well I couldn't really have asked for better responses! Thanks so much guys.

Unfortunately, even with these instructions I've still not been able to get them to move. I've tried lifting with my first hand under had armpit and my second near her elbow as instructed. Of course to stop her lifting up completely, I have to hold her leg down with my third hand. But even when I do that her waist joint is the first to give and she just leans over sideways to the opposite side in response to me lifting her arm.

Am I at least right in thinking she must have the shrugging shoulders if she can lean sideways like that? If so I'll just have to keep trying. It's hard to get leverage as it seems the joint is deep in her body near her spine.

But thanks anyway and I'll keep trying.

Zippy81 · Post by **Zippy81** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:41 am

MattUK wrote:Wow! Well I couldn't really have asked for better responses! Thanks so much guys.

Unfortunately, even with these instructions I've still not been able to get them to move. I've tried lifting with my first hand under had armpit and my second near her elbow as instructed. Of course to stop her lifting up completely, I have to hold her leg down with my third hand. But even when I do that her waist joint is the first to give and she just leans over sideways to the opposite side in response to me lifting her arm.

Am I at least right in thinking she must have the shrugging shoulders if she can lean sideways like that? If so I'll just have to keep trying. It's hard to get leverage as it seems the joint is deep in her body near her spine.

But thanks anyway and I'll keep trying.

Hmm.. man its hard to say really.. ( refering to the waist joint assumption.) It seems there can be any number of skeleton combinations out there. Here is a pic of a skeleton with a goose neck and no shrugging shoulders and the waist joint bends sideways as well.

gooseneck skeleton.jpg

When I ordered my WM 168E with shrugging shoulders I assumed that the neck would be hinged type and it wasn't. So i've learned to specify everything during ordering from that.

Edit: One easy way to tell is press in around the collar bone area and feel if there is a smooth bar there like in the pic above or if you feel joints in there like the pics grim showed.

Edit 2: They can be pretty stiff (shrugging shoulders) my Taylor doll took forever to loosen up enough to move. In fact it took her falling off a elevated chair onto her shoulder lol (dont recommend that by the way!) But maybe if you cant go up try going down just to get some movement started.

grimreefer24601 · Post by **grimreefer24601** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:53 am

I'll second that, being someone who orders directly, specify every option or get potluck.

Grim

Cubiko · Post by **Cubiko** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:50 am

Zippy81 wrote:Hmm.. man its hard to say really.. ( refering to the waist joint assumption.) It seems there can be any number of skeleton combinations out there.

Indeed it does look that way. I have it the other way around, shrugging shoulders ok but no sideways hip/back bend. *scratches head in puzzlement*

On a side note, I love that photo of Hannah - so nicely posed!

grimreefer24601 · Post by **grimreefer24601** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 1:02 am

sideways shoulders or waist?

Rtechguy · Post by **Rtechguy** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:15 am

You can test for a gooseneck. Seeing as most manufacturers have gone back to them you probably do have a gooseneck

Anung Un Rama · Post by **Anung Un Rama** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:03 am

Ok, Quick reply, refer to the movement plain of joints and their angles, as if they torsion out of neutral position, you can not move the joint in that plane of movement, so need to gentle manipulate the joint back into the correct position to facilitate the correct joint angle plane of movement.

I must have posted this advise 50 times, but with over 10000 post between Lily and I, well, anyone, as over time per psot on this already. We better as a team folks, I can not do this all alone!

Anung

BWheeler1 · Post by **BWheeler1** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 11:26 am

Take a good look at the pictures that Grim has posted of the skeleton. They are a valuable resource for information. You can see where the joints are, what they look like, and how they move. This will help with figuring how to manipulate them, which is what I believe Anung was saying. Also, take a REAL good look at that double waist/back joint. Then GENTLY feel around your doll's back and see if you feel a single joint or a double like the one shown. Don't be afraid to push the TPE in a bit, just be gentle. I say this because I was sure that none of my girls had the double joint, hence no side to side movement. I tried moving Ji Eun and Sakura that way, didn't happen. But then, I was also sure up til last month that Kelsi, my almost three year old 140, did not have any back joint, just the swivel to turn at the waist. I was wrong, she has a single joint and was capable of bending at the back all this time. So I decided to feel around all three of my girls, and it turns out that while Kelsi does have a single joint, both Ji Eun and Sakura have the double joint. There was no mistaking it, the joints felt like the ones in Grim's pictures look. So I gave a little more effort and sure enough, both girls bend side to side. The joint is REALLY tight and I would not have tried hard enough if I didn't feel that joint. So some of you may actually have it and not know it, I just proved today that was possible. But definitely feel around first and make sure it is there before trying to bend your doll that way.

BWheeler1 · Post by **BWheeler1** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:38 pm

I emailed my vendor RLSD to ask if there was a specific time frame when WM started using that double joint, as soon as I hear anything I'll post. I do know that the shrugging shoulders is an option with them, I believe it's $75 extra. None of my girls have them because I didn't order them that way. But those of you who say yours don't have the double joint, do feel around her back and see if you have it. You may end up like me, thinking you don't have it when you do.

The-Doll-House NL · Post by **The-Doll-House NL** » Sun Nov 04, 2018 6:04 pm

As mentioned there are several ways to know if it's a goose neck.

About the shoulder joints, if testing for upward/downward movement isn't working out, you could also test for forward/backward movement of the shoulder which is also evidence of the shrugging shoulder upgrade. This may require some force but is easier to accomplish without moving the wrong joints.

Here's how. She can be sitting up or lieing down. Just leave her arms alongside her body (bent at the elbow if sitting up). Put one of your hands firmly against her back to keep her in place. Put it at the same height has her regular shoulder joint, between where a real person's shoulder blades would be. Then hold her shoulder with your other hand, and pull it backward. Same with moving it forward, but with one hand against her sternum instead of her back.

If this movement can be accomplished, then at least you will know that you have the shrugging shoulder upgrade. If you don't have this upgrade then at least you'll know to stop trying to shrug her shoulders up or down as well.