WM Eye Socket Depth?

[Dutch_Husband]

I have had problems moving Evie's eyes for posing. They are extremely difficult to move. I have to grab the eye and move it, then try to position the other so both eyes are looking in the same direction. They rarely end up that way and seem to try to settle back to how they were before I moved them.

I love the concept of the Easy-Move Eyes, but that is not in my budget at the moment.

In attempting to diagnose the problem, I found that the outer edge around the back of the eyeball has a sharp ridge. It appears to be from the molding process. That was easy enough to de-burr, and while at it, I added a bit of a chamfer to the edge around the back of the eye. So the eye itself is now smooth.

I noticed that the inside of the eyesocket are small cuts where that sharp edge has cut the tpe material. Also an easy fix, but this also made me wonder if the eye socket is actually deep enough. Maybe there is too much material in the back that needs to be scooped out?

In reviewing various videos about eye replacement, etc. I've noticed that the eye sockets of these other dolls (not necessarily WM dolls) seem to have a larger space behind the eye. In Mishka's video, he packets the socket with polyfill, enough to cover his palm. Evie's eyes have just enough to fill the small cavity in the eye itself. Thus, the eyeball was in contact with the back of the eye socket, and the sharp edge cutting into the tpe.

So now my question is... How deep should the eye socket be? I don't need a specific measurement, just a guess. The same depth as the eyeball? Twice the depth? Deep enough to fist?

I tried to take a photo, but even with lighting there isn't enough detail to show scale or even the cuts in the socket. If the socket just needs to be deepened, I don't want to remove too much and create more problems. I want to make sure that I am able to use Easy-Move, or maybe the "bead gimble" approach, at some time in the future.

Any advice?
Thanks in advance.

[MannequinFan]

Hi DH,

Have you tried powdering the eye sockets? That can help the eyes move a bit easier.
What eyeball diameter do you have? I've heard some of these factory eyes are getting pretty big - some 33.5mm or more.
Normally the factory eyes should be around 32.5mm. The EMEs are slightly smaller at 31.8mm.

The sockets are normally flattened a bit at the back, but should allow some eye movement.

Normal socket flattened at back

IMG_4386.JPG (562.83 KiB) Viewed 1058 times

If you insert the eyes without the cotton fill they should be a little loose if things are normal. There should be a noticeable gap to the eyelids if you push them all the way in.
If not and the eyes are cutting the TPE, check your eyeball diameter first.

[Dutch_Husband]

Thanks, MF!

The eyes measure right at 32mm.

The back of the socket is flat, but as I look closer at the cuts, I think now they are not from the eye. It looks like a thin piece of TPE was glued into the bottom of the socket. What I thought were cuts appear to be the edges of this "liner" at the back. I'll try to get a photo.

I set the eye in the socket, without the padding, and it looks much like your photo above. The gap is not that big, but there is a gap.

I have tried powder, but I am wondering if I didn't have enough. The inside of the eyelid feels smooth, but not slick, if that makes sense.

You have given me some things to check out. Thanks!

[Dutch_Husband]

I got the photos of the inside of the socket so you can see what I see.

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0225191627_HDR.jpg (1.16 MiB) Viewed 1049 times

Without the padding and the eyes against the back of the socket...

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Should the padding only be in the cavity of the eye, or should it line the back of the socket. To me (with or without the padding) it feels like the eye is sitting flush against the back and so it can't pivot. I think that's what made me wonder if the socket is deep enough to allow some wiggle room.

[MannequinFan]

Well, not sure what to tell you DH.
Those eye sockets do look a little strange. Especially the left one.
Looks like there was perhaps a casting problem and they repaired it by gluing a piece in.

From the photo it doesn't appear there will be enough depth for posing as the eyes are pretty much against the lids.
Is the doll a genuine WM or a clone?

[Dutch_Husband]

That's what I thought too.
From looking at your photos, I have a better understanding of what it should look like and how deep it should be. When I get a chance, I may get a closer look in there and see if it is possible to remove some of that material and do a better repair. I'll see if I can smooth it out and get it looking the way it should.

I was told by the vendor that it is genuine WM. And vendors never lie, right? LOL

Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.

[Dutch_Husband]

I decided to remove the "liner" or whatever was at the back of the eye socket to see if I could make more room for the eyes to move.

This "liner" was definitely not part of the original casting, and was added later. It isn't even the same skin color.

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Once those were removed, I did not need to remove any additional material.

I found another issue which was affecting the eye sockets. Apparently the face skin was not fully attached to the fiberglass "skull" form. It was glued, but only in places. Up near the eye sockets, the skin was not attached, and could therefore buckle. Not enough to be visible, but enough to affect the shape of the eyelid and bottom edge of the socket.

A little bit of Gorilla Glue secured the skin to the skull, and I was able to get the eyes to fit properly and move easily now.

Thanks for the help.