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 Post subject: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dropped
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:20 am 
VENDOR
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Hi All,

You may have been aware, that on the 5th July 2018 we had a visit from the National Crime Agency (NCA) who deal with serious and organised crime in the UK.
We were informed that they wished me to voluntarily attend an interview with the officers at a local police station. Failure to comply could possible have resulted in an arrest.

So I attended the interview and answered their questions, where they informed me that a WM small breasted head #36 had been seized at UK customs (this doll order had been sent by UPS customs cleared via Hungary, so how UK customs were involved I do not know) and that they were investigating The-Doll-House. They then seized all IT technology save the main business laptop for investigation.
So many questions and answers later, I was advised that any doll of 140cm or under would be considered a child doll and so likely to be investigated etc etc. So we took down all dolls of this size (140cm) and under, from the website.

The NCA did let us know via our solicitors that they were going to use the action of the Crown vs Turner (Canterbury) against us - essentially this guy had a 100-110cm doll (with a head that was too small for the doll IMHO) and the media were all over this as it occurred. The media did not emphasise that this man had 34,000 indecent images of children on his computer, and I believe this was his actual crime, otherwise it is simply the importation of a deemed obscene object that is potentially criminal.

So four and a half months later, I receive word through the solicitor that no further action is to be taken against Me/The-Doll-House as there is not an acceptable likelihood that a prosecution would take place in court. Although technically I am on bail, and the charges can be re-raised at any time, which sounds like coercion to me. Especially as the NCA have requested a meeting with me to discuss The-Doll-House methods of business etc.

It should be noted (specially with regards to the Turner case) that the UK authorities are viewing possession of all small dolls as a high indication that you will be in possession of indecent material, and hence the electronic searches of The-Doll-House equipment, which has little to do with the importation of potentially obscene objects.

So I believe that after my meeting with the NCA, I will have some 'guidelines' to share with the industry and community, as I believe that these guidelines will be (in effect) interim laws, until we get something heard in the House of Commons with regards to the legality of Dolls.

It seems that unless you have some other legal infraction, then doll ownership is not the evil that the media would have people believe, and I keep hearing stories of cases being thrown out of court (although there have been prosecutions, I wonder if they were badly represented?)

So this is the story thus far, and there is more to come.

I am interested to hear the thoughts of the community, as this does affect us all.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:41 am 
Senior Member
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:58 am
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Location: East Sussex uk
congrats they knew they didnt have a case in the first place their only goal is to shame doll vendors and buyers of dolls, will be very interesting to see what comes out of the meeting with the NCA


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 10:54 am 
Doll Patriarch
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Hi Phil, this is very good news that they have dropped the case although it can't be nice to have the threat of further investigation etc hanging over you when there seems to be a complete lack of any evidence to warrant it. I'm no expert in what are the exact mechanisms that drive some people to seek out obscene images of children and related material but I do know that they are much more complicated then the media and the law seem to understand, or more worryingly, be willing to try and understand. My background is in psychiatry, so over 34 years I met a lot of damaged people and some of them had developed what most would consider to be unhealthy sexual predilictions. In the cases that I came across one common factor was a history of abuse as a child themselves and therefore this would be the strongest indicator, along with many other factors, to suggest there may be problems. Doll ownership, is a relatively new phenomenon in terms of recent history, so I suspect there isn't a lot of information available which is why there seems to be this unsatisfactory situation here in the UK where border force make arbitrary decisions about dolls and whether they constitute an obscene article. Personally I think the whole concept of a doll being anything other than a doll is completely bonkers! I would welcome anyone to visit my home and see my lovely ladies and have them explain to me how on earth they could constitute a threat to anyone! On the question of sex and what, if anything, I get up to it should be none of their damn business if I'm not breaking any clearly defined laws. Having dolls in my life has given me a great deal of joy and I would regard myself as reasonably healthy mentally, I'm sure my kids would say if it were otherwise! So I will be interested to see what, if anything, transpired with your situation, what we need is some proper evidence based legislation that defines what is or isn't something that should be banned as it represents some sort of threat, if that were to happen then it should clear the way for dolls to be imported without all this nonsense, as you say, the cases that have made the headlines in the UK involved guys who had obscene images of children and that's what got them into trouble but the media focused on the fact that they had child like dolls, which although possibly creepy, isn't initself against the law as far as I understand it? Anyway good luck mate, if you get any more grief then send them up to me and I will tell them just how my dolls have given me so much in the past 2 years!


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:03 am 
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Some good news for you at least Phil, although yeah as you said it seems this news come with some interesting clauses. Keep up the good fight :)


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:17 am 
Doll Mentor
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The-Doll-House wrote:
Hi All,

You may have been aware, that on the 5th July 2018 we had a visit from the National Crime Agency (NCA) who deal with serious and organised crime in the UK.
We were informed that they wished me to voluntarily attend an interview with the officers at a local police station. Failure to comply could possible have resulted in an arrest.


How is it even remotely considered "voluntary" if the request ends in the caveat of possible arrest? Nothing like a little dose of Draconian tactics, eh?



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:52 pm 
Apprentice
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Keep up the fight Phil.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:00 pm 
Doll Mentor
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Great news! Thank you for fighting the good fight.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:06 pm 
Apprentice
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Did you also say they confiscated your IT equipment's for investigation


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:40 pm 
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On the whole, that's good news Phil, though it must be daunting that they've still got the threats of coming back if/when they feel like it. It does feel like the various authorities have an axe to grind with the Doll scene, with this and Harem's problems being recent examples.
The-Doll-House wrote:
So I believe that after my meeting with the NCA, I will have some 'guidelines' to share with the industry and community, as I believe that these guidelines will be (in effect) interim laws, until we get something heard in the House of Commons with regards to the legality of Dolls.

This, I suppose, will be a good thing in the interim - at least to have a list of dolls attributes that would have "acceptable", "unacceptable", or "borderline - be careful" tags for them. At least then, we can have the confidence, that for example a 153 A cup doll will not be problematic with customs, but an XYZcm doll with a certain head is a no-no, etc. Might be worth speaking with Anung on this, as I know he has experience with the Australian customs on this, and they pretty much have an agreed list.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 1:51 pm 
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Good that case dropped.
But still... UK seems to be pretty fucked up.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:04 pm 
Doll Advisor
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I once worked for a surgeon. He was brilliant and exceptionally skilled, but he was emotionally checked out.
I finally asked him what had happened in his life so that he barely could work.

A blind patient had organized a scam where he would claim his rights as a disabled person were violated by a doctor and he'd file a complaint with a government agency. The government would ask the doctors to pay damages and they would close the case, but this doctor refused as he'd done nothing wrong. That was a huge mistake. It turned into a costly legal battle for years and this was only a civil matter. Governments around the world are so powerful we really have no choice but to do what they say.

The source of this quote is debated, but it's a good one:
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Candidates running for political office spend astronomical sums of money to run for office. Does any candidate say "I'm running to give you your liberty back"? Nope. They just pass more laws.

Elon Musk just paid a 20 million dollar fine to settle with the SEC.
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/29/busi ... ement.html

Be careful what you tweet!


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:07 pm 
Doll Advisor
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jbl182 wrote:
Good that case dropped.
But still... UK seems to be pretty fucked up.
It would not surprise me to see this happen in ANY country to be honest.

The Piper 100 CM doll is a beautiful sexy doll with amazing breasts. It's not intended to look like a child in any way. It's just a small doll. Is the Piper 100 CM going to be banned now in the UK because it's small? That's simply wrong and an example of a really bad decision by the government.


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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 2:19 pm 
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Robert Lloyd wrote:
jbl182 wrote:
Good that case dropped.
But still... UK seems to be pretty fucked up.
It would not surprise me to see this happen in ANY country to be honest.

The Piper 100 CM doll is a beautiful sexy doll with amazing breasts. It's not intended to look like a child in any way. It's just a small doll. Is the Piper 100 CM going to be banned now in the UK because it's small? That's simply wrong and an example of a really bad decision by the government.

Yeah it can for sure happen in any country. But for a fact there are sooo many UK reports the last months. My vendor banned uk from sending any dolls.



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 4:46 pm 
Doll Visionary
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A big relief.

Willing to help always as you know.

Best wishes

Harem



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 Post subject: Re: The UK National Crime Agency and The-Doll-House Case Dro
PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 5:23 pm 
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Thank you for sharing this information. We are glad that the case was dropped -as it should be!



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