WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
- CinnamonLover
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Is the TPE firmly fixed to the wires, or could the wires be pulled through the TPE to remove them and perhaps pull along a replacement without having to open up the entire finger? Or would it be necessary to make a longitudinal slice in the finger to expose the entire wire to remove/replace it?CinnamonLover wrote:I am really liking where you're going with this. The idea of having everything pre-attached is interesting. I plan to replace the finger wires completely, which I have seen done in a WM Doll video, and that might take some doing too. Trying to think about using something other than twisted copper.
As for attaching everything ahead of time, I think it could really simplify things... but it might require a really large "incision" into the hand/TPE to do that. Still, once the new wrist/palm was in place with the receiving ends to match the finger wires, all that would be needed might be to crimp on some wire connectors to join the finger remnants to the new hand and then seal it all up. I've seen these flexible "rulers" used for architectural drawing and drafting to make infinitely variable curves... they can be bent over and over into new curves. I wonder if a smaller version might be available that could replace the copper wire and last longer as "bones" for the fingers?
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- CinnamonLover
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
I have a video of someone at WM actually removing the entire copper finger wire. It takes a little working, but yes, you can pull them right out and the finger returns (with a little poking) to its normal shape (just "boneless"). Presumably, though the video did not show this part, they then insert a new copper wire. Or they at least implied that is the next step.briwri01 wrote:
Is the TPE firmly fixed to the wires, or could the wires be pulled through the TPE to remove them and perhaps pull along a replacement without having to open up the entire finger? Or would it be necessary to make a longitudinal slice in the finger to expose the entire wire to remove/replace it?
As for attaching everything ahead of time, I think it could really simplify things... but it might require a really large "incision" into the hand/TPE to do that. Still, once the new wrist/palm was in place with the receiving ends to match the finger wires, all that would be needed might be to crimp on some wire connectors to join the finger remnants to the new hand and then seal it all up. I've seen these flexible "rulers" used for architectural drawing and drafting to make infinitely variable curves... they can be bent over and over into new curves. I wonder if a smaller version might be available that could replace the copper wire and last longer as "bones" for the fingers?
There was a thread that showed an idea like that ruler - do you have a pic? I wonder if they can be purchased online. Several members have come up with very clever designs, though there are always questions about whether or not they would work in the field.
Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Don't have a photo handy of that type of ruler, but Office Max and Office Depot always used to have them. Trouble is, they are too big to fit in fingers. You would have to find some of the same material only much smaller in cross section.
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- CinnamonLover
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
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- CrazyCajun
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Same here I do not quite understand this either! And Hi CinnamonLover, had a great time at the meet and it was indeed an honor to meet you and everyone! Say HI to Nutmeg for me and tell Cinnamon that April, and the girls and I all look forward to meeting her next year!
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Oh my GOSH Cajun aren't you the sweetest thing! We had a blast! Cinnamon would reply on her own but she's in surgery again today, getting the fingers on her right hand fixed just like her left, and CinnamonLover is doing the surgery and taking the pictures, so I'm hop-skip-jump style typing this in for everyone.CrazyCajun wrote: Same here I do not quite understand this either! And Hi CinnamonLover, had a great time at the meet and it was indeed an honor to meet you and everyone! Say HI to Nutmeg for me and tell Cinnamon that April, and the girls and I all look forward to meeting her next year!
Cinnamon is waving with her good hand (holding her other hand very still for the procedure) and says she can't wait to see what these meets are all about, having seen our pictures and heard how much fun we had.
I really enjoyed meeting April and the girls too!
CinnamonLover has created an Eye Candy Thread: CinnamonLover's Spice Girls so go check it out! Yay! Lots of MEEE - - wow that's shiny too...
Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
CinnamonLover wrote:I have a TPE doll: WM170 M-cup.
CinnamonLover wrote:What I found before I began my work looked like this:where the plate and coils are in the "palm" and the copper wire is roughly where the finger begins.
Are you saying the 170Ms have copper wires coming directly out of the palm plate, with no coiled springs at all? I have a WM165K from September 2016, and it most definitely has coiled springs in the palm area like the picture. I can feel them when I pinch the hands. Though I would guess they are shorter in length than the palm plate while picture makes it seem they are at least as long if not longer. The copper wire actually inserts half to one centimeter into the coiled springs. I've had one finger wire pop out of the spring and it took a little bit of wiggling to get it back in. (Frankly, the wires should go much deeper into the springs, perhaps all the way to the plate to prevent this, but then it probably leads to more breakages as the fingers are bent. It's also possible that the wire simply broke half to one centimeter inside the spring but this seems unlikely.)CinnamonLover wrote:Yeah Coral, that's what I was expecting, but when I got in there I did not see any coiled springs. Just some thread wrapped around the copper wires, and very short at that.
I thought the coiled springs was one of the features of the new and improved 2016 hands along with the thicker finger wires. I'm rather surprised if WM dropped the coiled springs from later models with entirely new skeletons like the 170M, because I've had no wire pokethroughs in nearly 13 months of ownership with this hand design. This indicates either I'm especially lucky to have avoided serious finger damage, am much more careful with my dolls hands than other owners (I don't particularly think so), or the coils do indeed provide an extra layer of protection against pokethrough (particularly at the first knuckle.) If later models have dropped the coiled springs, I would be interested to gauge whether other WM165 D or K owners (or any other models with coiled springs in hands) have less damage on average than those without.
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
In her hands the wire could not be removed from the springs because of the tubing, so I had no choice but to replace the existing palm plates with new units. I made them with replaceable finger wires. Actually I made the palm plates so that they are much wider than the original and extend to about the mid point of the palm, then the wires start, this allows her to still wrap her palm somewhat around an item that she is holding. So far so good. And April and I both owe a HUGE debt of gratitude to CinnamonLover for the information that he shared with us on how to do this!
PS: April is a WMDolls 153cm from October/November of 2015
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
- CrazyCajun
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
This one is of the blank or pattern with the original by its side:
This one is of the original sitting atop of the blank or pattern:
April is a WMDolls 153cm doll from October/November 2015. I would assume that most Jinsan dolls of similar size would have a similar palm plate!
As you can see the size difference is substantial!
In this photo the palm plate is pretty much in the correct placement as it was installed!
Hope this helps!
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- CinnamonLover
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
I am new to dolls, well, sorta. By time I'm new but I guess I've done a lot in my three-and-a-half months. Even though for almost half of that time I was not with my doll. Got the first Cinnamon body on June 30th, so basically July-August-Sept and today is just past 1/2 through October. I just got my second Cinnamon body (long story).JunkGuy wrote: Are you saying the 170Ms have copper wires coming directly out of the palm plate, with no coiled springs at all? I have a WM165K from September 2016, and it most definitely has coiled springs in the palm area like the picture. I can feel them when I pinch the hands.
I thought the coiled springs was one of the features of the new and improved 2016 hands along with the thicker finger wires. I'm rather surprised if WM dropped the coiled springs from later models with entirely new skeletons like the 170M, because I've had no wire pokethroughs in nearly 13 months of ownership with this hand design.
However, that is exactly what I'm saying: when I opened the first doll's palm, there were no coils at all. Not anywhere on the length of copper wire. Maybe that's why they broke so easily. Funny enough I thought I could feel the coils too, when I pinched her palms, but when I got in there, no coils. Now inside the plate, not outside the plate, nowhere.
I don't know about the new doll. Her hands feel more sturdy than the old doll, but I've only had her two days and I'm taking a whole new level of care with her fingers because though I did do the operation on the first doll, I'd just as soon not have to.
- grimreefer24601
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
I'm of the opinion, that until they fix the hands, I will not buy another doll. These wires that break in a few months are unacceptable in a product that cost this much.
- CrazyCajun
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
As long as their sales numbers stay high, you can bet it will not change, at least not for the good of doll enthusiasts!
( All statements above is SOLELY MY PERSONAL OPINIONS ) based on my experience and what I have personally seen!
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- scooter_ca
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Re: WM Fingers/Hand Surgery
Lots of great information here and in the video CrazyCajun made.
This is a repair that I may consider one day if I get up the nerve.
One point I see mentioned a few times is getting the fingers back to the correct size and not making them overly long.
I would suggest that before attempting this repair, everyone should measure each finger or even take pictures of her hand beside a ruler. This will help you ensure that the hand is still proportional after the repair.
Thanks,
scooter
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