3M 94 Primer – Application as a TPE Glue / Cold Weld

[muesky6969]

They need to get the weight down so the women buyers can deal with them
Not only women, age has done its thing with some of us

So true, so true!! Plus what about people who have disabilities? I am only 5'3", had my whole lower back rebuilt and am getting ready to turn 50, so for some it is even more of a challenge... JS

[seagull]

Ah, understand the interest in lifting equipment

[Wheezer]

They need to get the weight down so the women buyers can deal with them
Not only women, age has done its thing with some of us

Exactly on my point. As she muesky6969 said, most women want then over 5 feet and beefy. Now that means HEAVY. Getting the male doll down in weight should ripple over to the rest of the market. People of ANY age or gender could use a full size, good looking TPE doll in the 50-60 lb range.

The challenge is the market. The female market is small compared to the male one. While the market for the dolls are booming in China, that is the male market. So lacking any real motivator the will just make them bigger and heavier for the male target market and keep churning them out. Until something pops and they see a market and money by making them big but also light.

Now if someone could only convince the FDA to approve a light weight and accurate sex doll as a therapeutic device for a specified ailment or handicap. That would lead Medicare to approve reimbursement for "therapy" dolls. Within a month every US drugstore would have adverts for them. In two months folks would be getting cold calls on how they need them and they are paid for by Medicare. In six months the market would be flooded by them.

So I guess who wants to be the first convince their doctor to prescribe one as a cure for their ailment ?

Cheers!
... W ...

[seagull]

a. convince their doctor to prescribe one
b. get legislation reworded with an accurate definition of child-like
c. live long enough for this to happen

[Wheezer]

True ... a long time from now in a galaxy far, far away ....

But just think of the internet news goofiness that would ensue when the first Doctor prescribes one.
That alone would be priceless.
... W ...

[teddykan1]

Wheezer hats off to you for this monumental piece of work
Much appreciated

[muesky6969]

True ... a long time from now in a galaxy far, far away ....

But just think of the internet news goofiness that would ensue when the first Doctor prescribes one.
That alone would be priceless.
... W ...

Actually if you could get a psychiatrist to prescribe a therapy doll it might work better. The fact a lot of people consider psychiatry woo-woo medicine anyway, it might not be questioned as much. I mean medicare, medicaid and a number of private insurances will pay for a therapy animal.
I think the media would have a field day with this, though and not in a nice way. Think of the poor sods who were prescribed the doll would be the focus of ridicule and tasteless jokes. The sad thing is these dolls would be good for sexual abuse survivors, to have a safe outlet to work through trauma.
The thing is, I think the market for women is going to grow fast. Of the vendors I have spoken to they seem really on-board with marketing to women, because it is basically an untapped market and in our capitalistic society, companies are all about unrealistic perpetual growth, so they are going to have to adapt or loose out to the competition.

[Wheezer]

Have been a bit tied up testing and repairing, so no real time for posting. But I had some interesting results.

• 1) Molding – Prior to starting the 3M 94 and 3M VHB comparison paste test molding I wanted to finish off a long term test, using ice as a mold for TPE paste. This was to determine the viability of using ice as a mold, and the impacts of extreme cold on the curing rate and resulting item. The results were interesting. As a mold ice will allow detailed items to be created. It also showed the true limits of molding with paste, and highlighted the problem of surface cure (due to evaporation) and how this impacts the cure of deeper areas in the mold.
  
  2) Facial Reconstruction – The “Fish Scale Face” proved to be a challenge. She now has a bit of a more rounded tip of the nose, repaired lips, chin and some slight cheek implants to alter the face. Her eyes were also cleaned, polished and sealed with acrylic, they look a bit better. I left a small dimple (divot?) on her chin to remind me she is unique. The fun part of paste reconstruction is to stop before you think you are done and give the paste and primer smoother sufficient time to cure before your second coat. Nuff’ said on that. She is still safety curing then will go on to makeup and makeup sealing.
  
  3) Merkins – I started testing making Merkins (pubic wigs) out some “fake fur” and 3M 94 and 3M VHD paste. Both were used as temporary flexible edge binders to prevent fur layaway when trimming and coloring and later as adhesives. The paste works great to hold the merkin in place. Using the paste as an edge adhesive also allows smooth blending to the source TPE of the doll. The installed pubic hairs looks good and feels a bit odd. Very smooth and silky, not like the typical “Brillo pad bush”.
  
  4) Labia Reconstruction – On doll had some deteriorating lips that took some time to address. That entailed getting into testing methods of vaginal repair and lip reconstruction. Bonding the lip parts went well, along with adding some fillets of paste to reduce stress areas. I may add some small extrusions to the existing lips to give a bit more size and definition. I’m not sure of the final coloring, but the repaired parts (once cured) seem to hold well in this high stress area.
  
  5) Vaginal repair – Once area on tan WM doll was showing breakdown in the area below the vagina and above the anus. This was either due to age, over oiling, stress or just tired TPE. Initial paste tests on this area turned out fine, so I did final repairs. A thickened paste was injected into the damaged areas when slightly opened to fill the holes and bind the damage, and then the legs were closed up. Once cured the area can now “open wide” and the bonds are withstanding the resulting stress. Smoothing was done with pure primer then powdered.
  
  6) Elbow Repair – The initial tan WM elbow repair was revisited and the 1mm hole was injected with paste and surface smoothed. Once cured the elbow flexes without TPE damage. I found a translucent powder to test with blending and it shows promise.
  
  7) Kimber Knees – The Kimber knees were revisited to fill the imperfections on one join and smooth the results. The resulting bonds and areas have a decent surface and hold stress well. A challenge will be that an initial unsuccessful repair solution left some color issues. The source TPE is a very light color so this will be interesting.

I wanted to get the simple stuff all wrapped up and off the plate before I chop open Piper and dig into her back problems. Then repair of her VagAnus chasm and recontour the labia and anal areas. Next the facial reconstruction with restoration of her button nose and the bridge of her nose. Her initial arm pit repair from a donor paste is holding well, which means I can use that paste for repairs and restoration. That leads to an interesting direction for her nipple repair.

More later…
Cheers!
… W …

[Wheezer]

Actually if you could get a psychiatrist to prescribe a therapy doll it might work better. The fact a lot of people consider psychiatry woo-woo medicine anyway, it might not be questioned as much. I mean medicare, medicaid and a number of private insurances will pay for a therapy animal.
I think the media would have a field day with this, though and not in a nice way. Think of the poor sods who were prescribed the doll would be the focus of ridicule and tasteless jokes. The sad thing is these dolls would be good for sexual abuse survivors, to have a safe outlet to work through trauma.
The thing is, I think the market for women is going to grow fast. Of the vendors I have spoken to they seem really on-board with marketing to women, because it is basically an untapped market and in our capitalistic society, companies are all about unrealistic perpetual growth, so they are going to have to adapt or loose out to the competition.

Agreed, pretty tough for the first poor soul. Perhaps one daring individual here on TDF will be willing to take one for the team?

The market and competition comment is spot on ... if they hear the jingle of money, they will come !
Cheers!
... W ...

[muesky6969]

Actually if you could get a psychiatrist to prescribe a therapy doll it might work better. The fact a lot of people consider psychiatry woo-woo medicine anyway, it might not be questioned as much. I mean medicare, medicaid and a number of private insurances will pay for a therapy animal.
I think the media would have a field day with this, though and not in a nice way. Think of the poor sods who were prescribed the doll would be the focus of ridicule and tasteless jokes. The sad thing is these dolls would be good for sexual abuse survivors, to have a safe outlet to work through trauma.
The thing is, I think the market for women is going to grow fast. Of the vendors I have spoken to they seem really on-board with marketing to women, because it is basically an untapped market and in our capitalistic society, companies are all about unrealistic perpetual growth, so they are going to have to adapt or loose out to the competition.

Agreed, pretty tough for the first poor soul. Perhaps one daring individual here on TDF will be willing to take one for the team?

The market and competition comment is spot on ... if they hear the jingle of money, they will come !
Cheers!
... W ...

If I was closer to retirement I would totally be willing to "take one for the team", unfortunately I still have 18 more years and my career would be over...
By the way, I finished the aging process on Xiel! I posted more pictures on the thread I created to start this whole thing. Very happy with the results...

[Wheezer]

If I was closer to retirement I would totally be willing to "take one for the team", unfortunately I still have 18 more years and my career would be over...
By the way, I finished the aging process on Xiel! I posted more pictures on the thread I created to start this whole thing. Very happy with the results...

Good point about the potential blowback. Perhaps instead of the "Masked Singer" we need a "Masked Doll User". Who knows, maybe a new TV show. Probably have to be on cable due to images of the doll parts and interactions.

Excellent results. Great to see the fruition of all the talk and design ideas. The ageing and tuning makes a significant difference. For some reason most TPE female doll heads are too smooth, lacking any real cheek or facial definition. Sadly I think it is because the mold makers only see the "perfect" images as a model. Not realizing that without a makeup team, and perhaps a can or two of spackle, the actual human female they are modeling does not look like that. She might look like that for a photo shoot, but not in real life. Xiel, on the other hand, looks real life realistic.

A thing I play with on my face makeup is light shadowing, it does help a bit. A very slight subtle grey line under the ridge of the nostril sides gives a nice illusion of depth, especially when in regular light. Likewise some grey powder on a Q-tip inside the nose nostrils. On a real human that is an opening that is dark. No matter how nice some of the photographers try with lighting and outfits, when you see a face that has flesh colored nose openings it just screams fake. Sadly, once you start noticing that it is hard to go back.

Great result!
... W ...

[muesky6969]

If I was closer to retirement I would totally be willing to "take one for the team", unfortunately I still have 18 more years and my career would be over...
By the way, I finished the aging process on Xiel! I posted more pictures on the thread I created to start this whole thing. Very happy with the results...

Good point about the potential blowback. Perhaps instead of the "masked Singer" we need a "Masked Doll User". Who knows, maybe a new TV show. Probably have to be on cable due to images of the doll parts and interactions.

Excellent results. Great to see the fruition of all the talk and design ideas. The ageing and tuning makes a significant difference. For some reason most TPE female doll heads are too smooth, lacking any real cheek or facial definition. Sadly I think it is because the mold makers only see the "perfect" images as a model. Not realizing that without a makeup team, and perhaps a can or two of spackle, the actual human female they are modeling does not look like that. She might look like that for a photo shoot, but not in real life. Xiel, on the other hand, looks real life realistic.

A thing I play with on my face makeup is light shadowing, it does help a bit. A very slight subtle grey line under the ridge of the nostril sides gives a nice illusion of depth, especially when in regular light. Likewise some grey powder on a Q-tip inside the nose nostrils. On a real human that is an opening that is dark. No matter how nice some of the photographers try with lighting and outfits, when you see a face that has flesh colored nose openings it just screams fake. Sadly, once you start noticing that it is hard to go back.

Great result!
... W ...

Dude... Really! I looked over at Xiel and saw that and now I am going to have to go in and color Xiel's nostrils...

I look at the female dolls and they are pretty but in common looking way, like every other pretty girl or woman you see. They have little to distinguish them. Honestly to me most female dolls look like versions of either Piper or Kimber. There are some simple ways to make the dolls more unique. Give your doll laugh lines around the eyes or a dimple, maybe even a small scar. Widening the jaw line or making the cheekbones more distinguished, is pretty easy, just pull the TPE away from the skull, cut some TPE into the shape you want for the jaw or cheek. Cover the insert with a bit of the median thick paste. Insert it and move it until it is positioned like you want. Let it dry then seal it up with more paste. (By the way, part of the butt/vag is now in Xiel's jaw.. Feel free to insert joke.. LOL!

For Xiel, I almost put in a chin implant but went with making an indention instead, since he is getting a beard and stash, anyway.
So one thing I did to give Xiel a bit more realism, is I textured the skin on his face. I did this by using a lightly heated spoon (a regular teaspoon size eating spoon, of course you don't want to eat with it ever again). You get the spoon just hot enough to slightly melt the tpe, and just lightly press it to the skin, reheat as needed, and it takes practice, don't forget to keep the skin covered with baby oil. I swear the skin on his face feels almost like real human skin. Admittedly, I figured this out by happy accident, but am thrilled. If you are going to buy a spoon to do this, use some sandpaper to slightly scuff the surface, I had a really old spoon, so that was not necessary. But the slight texture was just right, to get that real skin feel.

For adding color have you considered getting Chartpak markers and use a paint brush for some of the coloring? It will last a while and forever if you put a thin coat of paste over it. That is what I am going to have to do with Xiel's lips and and now nostrils... LOL! (that is why I want to order the less toxic 3M solvent, cuz I really like kissing those lips of his)... Trade secret, actually, there is a generic brand of Chartpak markers that is 1/3 the price called MMFB Elite markers. I got a 40 pack for around $30 and they have the exact composition and work just like Chartpak. It was one of the last things I bought on Amazon, before the boycott. The good thing is you have a little of time if you screw up, just have some alcohol and baby oil on hand to clean up any mistakes.

Reading some of the things we have all come up with on this site, make me think of the book by Dr. Seuss "Oh The Places You Will Go".

[muesky6969]

Okay, so I sent pictures of Xiel's aging process to the vendor I purchased him from. Now they are all excited and want me to show them how I did this. Is it greedy of me to want some compensation for this information? They contacted within 30 minutes after sending them the pictures, they are so excited, and this vendor is in China. I mean I don't mind sharing it with you all because you are just wanting to fix or modify your dolls, but these people want the information to make more money.
The thing is I don't even know what a fair exchange would be for something like this. I am not asking for money but stuff, I just have no idea what to ask for. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

[Wheezer]

Dude... Really! I looked over at Xiel and saw that and now I am going to have to go in and color Xiel's nostrils...

I look at the female dolls and they are pretty but in common looking way, like every other pretty girl or woman you see. They have little to distinguish them. Honestly to me most female dolls look like versions of either Piper or Kimber. There are some simple ways to make the dolls more unique. Give your doll laugh lines around the eyes or a dimple, maybe even a small scar. Widening the jaw line or making the cheekbones more distinguished, is pretty easy, just pull the TPE away from the skull, cut some TPE into the shape you want for the jaw or cheek. Cover the insert with a bit of the median thick paste. Insert it and move it until it is positioned like you want. Let it dry then seal it up with more paste. (By the way, part of the butt/vag is now in Xiel's jaw.. Feel free to insert joke.. LOL!

For Xiel, I almost put in a chin implant but went with making an indention instead, since he is getting a beard and stash, anyway.
So one thing I did to give Xiel a bit more realism, is I textured the skin on his face. I did this by using a lightly heated spoon (a regular teaspoon size eating spoon, of course you don't want to eat with it ever again). You get the spoon just hot enough to slightly melt the tpe, and just lightly press it to the skin, reheat as needed, and it takes practice, don't forget to keep the skin covered with baby oil. I swear the skin on his face feels almost like real human skin. Admittedly, I figured this out by happy accident, but am thrilled. If you are going to buy a spoon to do this, use some sandpaper to slightly scuff the surface, I had a really old spoon, so that was not necessary. But the slight texture was just right, to get that real skin feel.

For adding color have you considered getting Chartpak markers and use a paint brush for some of the coloring? It will last a while and forever if you put a thin coat of paste over it. That is what I am going to have to do with Xiel's lips and and now nostrils... LOL! (that is why I want to order the less toxic 3M solvent, cuz I really like kissing those lips of his)... Trade secret, actually, there is a generic brand of Chartpak markers that is 1/3 the price called MMFB Elite markers. I got a 40 pack for around $30 and they have the exact composition and work just like Chartpak. It was one of the last things I bought on Amazon, before the boycott. The good thing is you have a little of time if you screw up, just have some alcohol and baby oil on hand to clean up any mistakes.

Reading some of the things we have all come up with on this site, make me think of the book by Dr. Seuss "Oh The Places You Will Go".

Thanks on the tip for the markers. These always pose a quandary. On one hand a repeatable color and easy application. But do like to change and have no problem with brushes. Such a problem. You were lucky to get them when you did it seems they have gone from Amazon.

Not too much luck with the cheek definition. I added some inserts and they look OK, but not the real cheek with cheek line next to nose. Ends up a bit puffy looking. Perhaps the TPE on the target face is thicker. Your skin texturing is what is commonly used on hot knife and other hot TPE applications. Some use webbing, some fine sandpaper. Anything to remove the absolute pure flat of the raw TPE. It only works on HOT TPE (as in melted not stolen). The 3M primer does not liquefy deep enough or long enough to make good impressions.

I left a comment on an alternate lip method on the age thread. It related to oil based paint markers. Those might be an option for the lips.

The texturing of the face gives the tactile sense (feel) but also breaks up the surface and light reflection. You might want to look into some light application of bronzing powder on the face. I've found that a light dusting gives a visual impression of pores and facial imperfections. Some of the translucent powders have the same effect. Not horrible but enough to fool the eye and give a better hint of realism. Add a bit of "random factor" to the flesh.

The similarity and "perfection" of most offshore designed TPE heads is a mystery to me. I'm sure the sculptors have seen an actual female sometime in their life, at least I hope so. But there really is no drive to. They make the heads and they sell. End of story. To most end users face makeup is a mystery, it is if you go down the rabbit hole of looking at it like human female makeup. A million products, reasons and tools for perfection. If you look at it like paint, light and shading then it makes sense. Especially if you look at the anatomy for blush and blood flow. However since most to most users they are just for fun, as long as she does not look like a clown, then all is good.

Sorry to have alerted you to the nose hole issue ... but as I said, once you notice it it really jumps out.

I could comment on Xiel now being a butt head, but I will refrain from that - it's too easy.

Cheers!
... W ...

[Wheezer]

Okay, so I sent pictures of Xiel's aging process to the vendor I purchased him from. Now they are all excited and want me to show them how I did this. Is it greedy of me to want some compensation for this information? They contacted within 30 minutes after sending them the pictures, they are so excited, and this vendor is in China. I mean I don't mind sharing it with you all because you are just wanting to fix or modify your dolls, but these people want the information to make more money.
The thing is I don't even know what a fair exchange would be for something like this. I am not asking for money but stuff, I just have no idea what to ask for. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated...

Good idea to get stuff up front. Intellectual property protection and protections of methods is not really high up in their manufacturing ethics. Based on observation, I'm sure there are fine folks out there (mandatory cover my butt statement).

Shoot high and see where it goes. As a minimum some blocks of TPE (for paste and repair), a few heads to modify and test, perhaps even a doll (or two) to modify and enhance. Right now you have a good (but probably short) window. Most heads are based on the female head model. This appears to be a softer TPE, which is enjoyed by the oral crowd and tactile folks. But the softness does not seem to really allow fine details such as you did on Xiel.

Once they figure out to make a slightly harder blend for the face (with perhaps soft lips and cheeks) they will be off to the races. Their sculptor can add lines and definition into the mold and then crank them out like popcorn.

If you ask them for things that might get improved and enhanced then give them ideas to make more money, then they will be intrigued and more willing to meet your request.

Just a suggestion - congrats on possibly becoming an outsource doll R&D person!

Cheers!
... W ...