Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
The result was that her skeleton tore a hole in her knee. (Pics below.)
After reading a lot of repair stuff from here my plan to fix it would be following:
1. Clean the area properly, of course
2. Use a small amount of M3 Primer to glue the hole. (Leaving it to settle for a day or two)
3. Use a heat gun (and a thermometer) to smoothen up the surface of the knee.
My questions are:
1. Does this sound a good plan in the first place?
2. I'm still trying to figure out what would be the best way to clean the area before using the primer? I don't want risk water getting inside her. I was thinking maybe trying baby oil carefully with a sponge or something?
3. Is the heat gun the only/best way to smoothen up the surface? I've also heard some people use sandpaper, how does that work?
Here's some pics.
Here you can see the knee when it's resting without stretching. This is also the position I'm going to leave it after applying the primer:
Here you can see the hole when the knee is bent. It goes all the way to the skeleton:
If I stretch the hole with my fingers you can see the part that propably did the damage:
I really appreciate your thoughts and advices, thank you!
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Bad news !
But I've seen threads where some repair significantly larger injuries perfectly.
I'm thinking of Arthur1960, Shigowa68, bigchilli, gogodolls, ...
If you haven't already looked at Arthur1960's threads, I think it's a must. He is an expert in repair and maintenance of TPE dolls.
He is still very active on TDF; if he doesn't spot your request for advice, I think you should send him a PM. I have always seen him respond kindly to the calls of distressed dolls and their distraught companions.
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
The damage looks as though it should respond to just heating the unstressed area, the following short list is of some of those who have have posted guides
Heat Gurus
Arther1960, Wheezer, Morghana, RevJack, Shiranui Gen-An, Pussy69
Do not use a heat gun that does not have heat and fan control, and do not rush the repair
There is no one correct way to effect a repair, does come down to your equipment and skill in working with plastic foam
Do your research and pick a technique that matches your situation, as well as getting valuable advice from those who've been there, done that n got the Tee shirt
- Wheezer
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Clean the area and probably the entire leg. Get the TPE back to the original color. Use soap water, oil and scrape, tweezers and everything else listed here on TDF.
When you think the area is clean, then do it one more time. The clean and prep time for something like this should be longer than the repair time.
If you are worried about water, then close up the wound and clean. When done then open up the wound and use Q-tip, tweezers, etc. to remove the last bits of grit.
A final mist of iso proplyl alcohol should reduce water issues.
Once you start with 3M primer and/or heat, then any dirt or grit will become fused to the TPE and be a pain to remove.
Before you start, do SOMETHING to prevent a future break by covering the sharp edge of the knee joint.
You can use a gauze bandage, the center portion of a Band-Aid (NOT the adhesive edges) or many other things.
Just as long as it will not cut through, is flexible, soft and not bulky. Look around and you will find something that works.
With the right tools and technique, you can repair this with heat using items such as micro soldering irons and such.
If you don't have those or or not comfortable with them, then using 3M primer might be easier.
For sealing up the would I would use 3M primer itself, not paste. The wound looks clean enough to seal naturally.
Position the leg so it is natural and the wound closes on its own.
Clean the interior of the wound with iso propyl alcohol to remove excess oil.
Carefully open the wound and apply 3M primer as deep as possible, but only about 1cm worth. Do NOT try to seal it up all at once.
Close the wound and allow to cure 24-48 hours undisturbed. The longer the better for a good cure.
After the first cure, open the wound again and apply another 1cm of 3m primer above the first batch.
Close up and let cure again for 24-48 hours. Repeat as needed until you get to the top.
During this process avoid the urge to force the parts together during curing, wrap it up like a human wound or anything like that.
Actions like that lead to the TPE curing in a stress state and a good chance of joint failure in the future.
If the wound will not close under natural positions, then that is a case for TPE paste.
The goal of all this is to get the area to cure and seal solid, not necessarily a perfect and invisible top joint.
Making the final seam disappear and look flawless is the next step.
Take your time to get a solid repair before getting into the final surface decoration.
Hope it helps.
Cheers!
... W ...
Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
This was truly a valuable information. I've read a lot about this on this forum, but all these details I couldn't have known in anyway! Thank you!
I know that patience is key in doing this kind of stuff, so I'm prepared to do it little by little, as you suggest.
Wouldyou recommend soldering iron or a heat gun? I have an impression that it might be easier to get a smooth outcome with a heat gun. Correct me if I'm wrong.
- Wheezer
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
I've known folks who could paint intricate detailed figurines, but mashed up their finger opening a jar of jelly.
Likewise ones who could do micro soldering, but could not draw a straight line.
If you combine tools you already have with skills you already possess, then your chance of a good repair goes up.
Otherwise you need to practice so your hands and tools do what your mind wants.
A soldering iron with the right tip and temperature can CLOSE and seal the wound.
But it also runs the risk of melting and deforming nearby TPE.
Thus you can quickly make things worse if you are not practiced and skilled.
A soldering iron can be used to smooth. But you need to use the side of the barrel or a spade tip.
Using that you run the risk of digging in and causing divots which then need to be smoothed.
So unless you have a really fine touch or done stuff like that before, probably best to avoid an iron.
A temperature controlled heat gun used for electronics work really works well for smoothing.
Not a hairdryer or heat gun used to strip paint or shrink film. Please don't use those.
An electronics type heat gun allows you to set a specific temperature and airflow, the others do not.
Another way to smooth is the HOT SPOON method.
For that you heat a spoon or other tool and use it to knock down the pre oiled TPE to smooth it.
You don't need to use an actual spoon. I've used metal sculpting tools and even small metal shovel items depending on the application.
Whatever tool you use, make sure the tool can handle 150-175C temps and you wrap the handle to avoid burns.
If this were my doll knee, I would smooth using a combined approach.
First apply oil to the target area and pre heat with a temperate controlled hot air gun.
Heat the TPE until it is pliable, but not flowing. The TPE will retain the heat for awhile and help in the next step.
Next I would use some preheated tools to do the actual surface smoothing.
For that I have a small solder pot that is filled with oil and kept at about 160C.
I then take a pre oiled and preheated tool and use that to smooth the TPE.
After a few passes the tool cools and goes back into the bath to heat and I use another one.
If you don't have a hot oil bath for your tools, you can heat them with your hot air gun.
Surface texturing is just to remove any surface glean by giving the TPE a semi random stipple, similar to human flesh.
All you need is the TPE hot enough to be pliable and accept an impression and a material to make the impression - WITHOUT CONTAMINATING THE TPE.
The last is key, since any dirt or grit on the impression material will bind into the TPE and make a bit of a mess.
Personably I use 3M Wet or Dry Automotive Refinishing Sandpaper in really fine grit, other similar sandpaper would probably work fine.
Avoid dry only stuff, coarse grit ones, those for woodworking and really cheap stuff. The grit tends to come off and embed in the doll.
Before use wash with hot water and soap several times to remove any excess grit and make it a bit more pliable.
I make sure never to use it to actually sand stuff. This prevents contamination and keeps the grit sharp for texturing.
Use is pretty straightforward. Heat the pre oiled TPE with hot air, gently press in to apply texture and repeat if needed.
I usually mist some iso alcohol over the area once done to flash set the warm TPE surface and get an idea of how it turned out.
When all done let it cool for awhile to make sure the TPE is fully set and your flesh impression stays intact.
It is pretty simple to do and hard to screw up, but if you have never done it before then practice first on a hidden area.
Hope it helps.
Cheers!
... W ...
Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Just do what The Man says and you will have the highest chance of success.
Many of us have learned from him, his experience and our mistakes.
Take your time, prep, prep, prep.
A d use REAL 3M Primer, from the can. Don't believe anyone who has "TPE Glue" or swears he has small bottles of 3M Primer. Neither exist in the real world.
Reverend Jack
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- Wheezer
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Thanks ... I forgot to add use the real stuff, not fake goo.
Cheers!
... W ...
Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
- Wheezer
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
That's fine.
When "THE TIME" comes the micro solder guy and straight line dude will be hungry and without food.
You can just sit back and smile while you chow down on jam.
... W ...
Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
I agree! I've read a lot of Wheezer's stuff here, and I have 100 % trust on what he says. And I'm also greatful that I get advices and instructions directly from him.RevJack wrote: ↑Wed Oct 25, 2023 6:24 pm Wheezer is The Man.
Just do what The Man says and you will have the highest chance of success.
Many of us have learned from him, his experience and our mistakes.
Take your time, prep, prep, prep.
A d use REAL 3M Primer, from the can. Don't believe anyone who has "TPE Glue" or swears he has small bottles of 3M Primer. Neither exist in the real world.
Reverend Jack
And yes, I've heard the stuff they sell as "tpe glue" can be... shady. I bought the right, original 3M Primer from a proper store while waiting for my doll to arrive, because I kinda knew the day will come when I need it.
Unfortunatelly I can't start preparing the doll for the operation until next week, because I have people coming over. I'll update here when things start happening.
- Wheezer
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Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
Actually folks coming over could be a GOOD thing.
You might want to spend some time doing a clean of the knee and leg area now, when letting her sit/dry for a few days while people are there.
When they leave you can see if there are additional areas to clean. If it looks good then the area is clean and dry and ready for repair.
Just my two cents.
Cheers!
... W ...
Re: Is this a good plan to fix a hole in the knee?
That's a good idea. I'll see if I find the time to do it. Thanks!Wheezer wrote: ↑Thu Oct 26, 2023 6:09 pm Glad I could help. I look forward to seeing you do a good job on the knee.
Actually folks coming over could be a GOOD thing.
You might want to spend some time doing a clean of the knee and leg area now, when letting her sit/dry for a few days while people are there.
When they leave you can see if there are additional areas to clean. If it looks good then the area is clean and dry and ready for repair.
Just my two cents.
Cheers!
... W ...