We can rebuild her. New MF hand plates and wires.

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Tue May 25, 2021 10:38 pm

Thanks Gentlemen!

"When you say you had to weld them shut, I assume you are talking about closing the incision?"

Yes, The incisions had to be welded shut with a soldering iron. The glue wouldn't hold it shut as there was too much tension on the hands. I have had to learn to weld and reshape the intimate areas of these dolls with heat. Bit of a learning curve but it has been worth it! Shout out to Mishka!

Since these dolls were made in china, I assume the Chinese aesthetic of small hands and feet on women was a design element. Having been a artist at one point(Pygmalion complex engaged!), I learned the hands are about 3/4 long as the face is tall. These hands nailed it.

The other thing I failed to mention is the feel of the hands. It's almost like real hands in that one can feel the 'bones' under the flesh. Far more realistic than wire. On the other hand, I see that I must be more careful with her hands now.

ADHERAQ777 · Post by **ADHERAQ777** » Fri May 28, 2021 6:42 am

Hiiii MF

I very like your works.... Me too I am Designer Mecahnical and thinking about make modifications for doll.

I am read all this TOPIC, but I have some reflexion.

- I think fingers is too big, result make big Fingers and bump, not pretty to see.

- Fingers is still discarded.
-Result too hasardous because all Hand is different on Doll.

Here the 4 Users make MF HAND:

: MF main 3.png (2.87 MiB) Viewed 899 times

: MF main 2.png (1.68 MiB) Viewed 899 times

: MF main 1.png (1.2 MiB) Viewed 899 times

The attachment MF principal 4.png is no longer available

Maybe make a little size for fingers. Soo I think about just use a plate, but with sinple Fil, mouvement will be not realist, but visual yes, and we see our Doll 99% of time.

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Sat May 29, 2021 4:24 pm

ADHERAQ777 wrote:Maybe make a little size for fingers. Soo I think about just use a plate, but with sinple Fil, mouvement will be not realist, but visual yes, and we see our Doll 99% of time.

Adheraq, thanks for your thoughts, but I won't be putting any more time into this project. I agree the result is not perfect, and one needs to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of doing this against the costs of getting a new doll with articulated hands.

It would be possible to use only the palm plate and metacarpals in the palm and just use wire for the fingers without the printed parts. However, even then you may still have issues caused by factory inaccuracies in the original skeleton placement (thin spots in TPE, etc.).
Personally, I'm not sure why you'd want to go through the all the headaches with the surgical process to end up with nothing different than you had before, but that's just my opinion.

Doll companies like WM are now waking up to this issue and are currently making some progress in solving the problems...
viewtopic.php?f=215&t=141807

In light of that, I'm leaving this project as it is. It's up to each doll owner to decide if it's worthwhile depending on their doll's age and condition.

Post by **Rock13** » Sat May 29, 2021 4:44 pm

MannequinFan wrote:
ADHERAQ777 wrote:Maybe make a little size for fingers. Soo I think about just use a plate, but with sinple Fil, mouvement will be not realist, but visual yes, and we see our Doll 99% of time.
Adheraq, thanks for your thoughts, but I won't be putting any more time into this project.

Nor should you. Your hand skeletons are available from Sculpteo and will probably remain so. They fit my doll's hands just fine and I have another set assembled for a new doll that's currently inbound. Per my request, which was transmitted just a few weeks before WM announced their new hands, this one has had the old palm plates & finger wires removed during the finishing process. Once I get a good look at the steel skeletons I will decide whether to install those or yours. Even if I roll with those, about which I'll remain cautiously optimistic, it'll be reassuring to have yours as an alternative.

ADHERAQ777 · Post by **ADHERAQ777** » Sat May 29, 2021 7:02 pm

MannequinFan wrote:
ADHERAQ777 wrote:Maybe make a little size for fingers. Soo I think about just use a plate, but with sinple Fil, mouvement will be not realist, but visual yes, and we see our Doll 99% of time.
Adheraq, thanks for your thoughts, but I won't be putting any more time into this project. I agree the result is not perfect, and one needs to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of doing this against the costs of getting a new doll with articulated hands.

It would be possible to use only the palm plate and metacarpals in the palm and just use wire for the fingers without the printed parts. However, even then you may still have issues caused by factory inaccuracies in the original skeleton placement (thin spots in TPE, etc.).
Personally, I'm not sure why you'd want to go through the all the headaches with the surgical process to end up with nothing different than you had before, but that's just my opinion.

Doll companies like WM are now waking up to this issue and are currently making some progress in solving the problems...
viewtopic.php?f=215&t=141807

In light of that, I'm leaving this project as it is. It's up to each doll owner to decide if it's worthwhile depending on their doll's age and condition.

thx you for your answers.

I understand this project need Time....

I have WMDOLLS since 3years, but fingers break one by one... xD Soo, I read for have better....

I think just put other fingers with a TOP fil Iron or Titane for long time life....

Strider · Post by **Strider** » Mon May 31, 2021 2:09 pm

Hi ADHERAQ777,

First, I think maybe the picture you referred to of my doll looks to have bigger hands because of the perspective. In that photo her hands are several inches in front of her face. you should refer to the one with her hand next to her face. In my eye, I think the hands are correctly proportioned, but I did shorten the wire between the knuckle and the finger bone. My opinion is based on a decade of working as a artist specializing in human 3D models. put the heel of your own hand on your chin an notice where the fingers touch on your forehead. It's not exact for everyone, but generally it is correct.

: faceproportion1sml.jpg (96.35 KiB) Viewed 822 times

If the finger wires at the time casting were perfectly centered in the fingers, and of uniform length, thin spots and bumps would be less. However, on most inexpensive dolls this isn't the case.

These dolls have anatomical correct placed intimate parts, very life like TPE, but the skeleton is not something D4E spent a lot of time developing (my dolls are 3 years old, maybe D4E updated their skeleton, idk.). So there are thin spots, and some spots on mine needed more material welded on to not tear thru.

I just want to say that MF's hands are a great option for those who want a pre designed hand that is relatively easy to install. I'm quite happy with mine, but by all means design your own if you like.

Lastly I have learned a thing about photography, Which is- Stand back and focus you camera in to do portraits. Otherwise, you get a fish eye effect. So I'll post a couple pics because I want to show MF's Eyes and lids properly and how they enhance the dolls appearance and expression. Sorry, they need their wigs brushed but they sleep with me and doll care is like foreplay.

Incidentally, the redheaded dolls eyelids have no makeup and are exactly the color MF painted them.

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ADHERAQ777 · Post by **ADHERAQ777** » Mon May 31, 2021 6:43 pm

Your Doll is beautiful.

Hummm No I think too big, wire is based on Two wire of 1mm each, soo 2mm, MF hand is about 5-7mm, too big.

Yes I am designer Mechanical, I try to made Hand with only wire, I think it is the solutions actualy, no expensive, no too big, and no easi to break... I works now on many wire and material with stress fatigue, I will post here my result after.

Post by **Rock13** » Mon May 31, 2021 7:10 pm

None of my dolls will ever have wire fingers again. If I should end up with one like that in the future, I will replace the hand parts with an articulated alternative immediately.

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Mon May 31, 2021 7:18 pm

ADHERAQ777 wrote:...I will post here my result after.

Adheraq, I think you've made your opinion clear enough now that you think the hands are too big.

Since this thread is about the hand skeleton I've designed, please create your own thread to post your designs. This will give your ideas more attention and avoid confusion and distraction in this thread.

Thanks,
MF

ADHERAQ777 · Post by **ADHERAQ777** » Mon May 31, 2021 10:11 pm

MannequinFan wrote:
ADHERAQ777 wrote:...I will post here my result after.
Adheraq, I think you've made your opinion clear enough now that you think the hands are too big.

Since this thread is about the hand skeleton I've designed, please create your own thread to post your designs. This will give your ideas more attention and avoid confusion and distraction in this thread.

Thanks,
MF

Oh yes Sorry.

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:34 pm

Hope he doesn't mind, but to illustrate another really nice job on installation, here's a before and after shot I borrowed from Trick700's thread of his doll Amber...

He's also doing some great photography. Check out Amber's thread here...
viewtopic.php?f=215&t=133842&start=660

Post by **Rock13** » Wed Jun 02, 2021 4:31 pm

Yes, Trick700 did a great job! Surely, a textbook example.

nakeddoll1 · Post by **nakeddoll1** » Fri Jun 04, 2021 8:08 pm

Just ordered the last parts I need to begin surgery. Luckily as I am an electrician I have the handy 14ga wire in about 500'.

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:55 pm

Rock13 wrote:Yes, Trick700 did a great job! Surely, a textbook example.

Hey Rock, you also did a stellar job with Hadleigh, especially considering the extensive repair work she required...

nakeddoll1 wrote:Just ordered the last parts I need to begin surgery. Luckily as I am an electrician I have the handy 14ga wire in about 500'.

Lol, Looks like you'll be able to do a few repairs!
Thanks, and keep us posted on how it all goes.

Post by **Rock13** » Sat Jun 05, 2021 1:03 pm

MannequinFan wrote:
Rock13 wrote:Yes, Trick700 did a great job! Surely, a textbook example.
Hey Rock, you also did a stellar job with Hadleigh, especially considering the extensive repair work she required...

nakeddoll1 wrote:Just ordered the last parts I need to begin surgery. Luckily as I am an electrician I have the handy 14ga wire in about 500'.
Lol, Looks like you'll be able to do a few repairs!
Thanks, and keep us posted on how it all goes.

Thanks, MannequinFan! The patch on her right hand came out rougher in texture because the TPE paste was flashing off rapidly and my attempt to spread it around smoothly resulted in some clumping. So, next time I have the heat gun handy I'm gonna clean and oil the area up real good and see if I can re-mobilize the surface of the patch and tap it with some sandpaper. I really would like to smooth it out.

BTW, your new eye pedestal design is absolutely stellar! The setting in the eye socket is much more stable and the eye movement a lot smoother. I will be ordering another set to replace Hadleigh's earlier version soon!