WM- Full Skeletal Overhaul (Hopefully)

Michaelangelo · Post by **Michaelangelo** » Wed Oct 26, 2022 5:13 am

Shigowa, thanks for the amazing thread with such detailed pictures!

I'm mostly interested in the foot details, since I'd like to fix a loose foot joint, i.e. up/down floppy not ankle rotation (that seems fine for now).

From your pics and discussion, it seems as though the foot joint clevis is attached with a bolt whose head is welded along with the bump stop.
So, if my Mira's foot plate looks the same (here's hoping...), to get the joint tight again would only require the nut to be tightened and/or ideally replaced with a better one, like a nylok nut.
Nice and tight (with the torque given, thank you!) and then give the washers a grease so the joint is not too tight.

Am I right in that or have I missed something? It doesn't sound too complicated, although I guess the foot plate and joint is of course all wrapped up with tape that has to be carefully removed and then put back or replaced...

Also wondering if making the incision from the back of the ankle/foot would make more sense than an incision underneath, as I don't need to remove/strip the foot plate..?

Many thanks for any tips!

Mike

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:24 am

A great many apologies for the recent lack of progress recently. I seem to be constantly called away from doll life by work life. Also the work space for my girls is the same work space for my racing buggy, which gets a full strip down after every national championship race. Dirty, oily offroad buggys and sweet, sexy TPE ladies, two worlds that should never meet.
The championship season has now finished and I have one more shoot to complete, if work will let me, then the surgery will continue.
Despite how it may look I still don`t consider myself as a doll expert and the thought of cutting into perfectly good TPE still fills me with dread. Plus the fact the plan is to completely remove the upper skeleton....Please forgive me for trying to put it off for as long as possible....Nervous much?

Michaelangelo

You are correct, just tightening up that nut will do the trick. The bolt may not be long enough for a nylock nut to be any use, so theadlock would be the way to go. In my case the the head of the bolts got a little mangled when cutting through the weld so they were also replaced with longer ones.
Pretty sure an incision in in the back of the foot will work. The joint is a lot lower down than you may think, just above the foot plate, so the heel of the foot NOT the ankle. May be tricky if you do need to cut that weld as it`s located at the front of the assembly, but probably still doable. As my plan was to remove the leg `bone` , the sole of the foot seemed a more logical place, or if you want to remove the just the ankle/foot assembly.

suppy

Even more apologies for not getting back to you sooner and I hope you`ve made some progress in my absence.
As I said earlier I`m no expert, my experience is limited to 1 WM skeleton. From my searching of the repair forum pretty sure most fixes can be done instu, with no need to remove whole sections of skeleton.
With so many joints needing attention my whole approach is why make 3 or 4 incisions per limb if it MAY be possible with just 2.
If I am understanding your description correctly: With the incision on the outside of the hip, removing the clevis assembly would be tricky because of the nut to bolt weld on the inside of the attachment to the pelvis. In theory, Disconnecting the leg from the clevis and grinding away the bolt head inside the clevis, then knocking out the remains of the bolt along with the nut....SCARY!!! ...with the added difficulty
of tightening everything back up when rebuilding, sadly a second incision to get to that nut/weld MAY be required. ( Although, I very well may have to tackle something similar with the upper skeleton

)

I am unsure as to which is your problem nut/bolt. In my case if the bolt head weld inside the clevis had broken free, the bolt head would only be able to rotate a small amount within the clevis before jamming up against the walls of the fork. This would lead to forward/back play in the leg and not the side to side play you describe. The only other fixtures in my hips do control side to side (open/closing of the legs) but the nut and bolt head are located on the outside of the clevis. With the incision on the outside of the hip these should be fixable without the need to remove the clevis.
Sorry I could`nt be more help here. Perhaps I am misinterpreting your description, or your skeletal construction is very different to mine .

Michaelangelo · Post by **Michaelangelo** » Thu Oct 27, 2022 12:23 pm

shigowa68 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 27, 2022 11:24 am Michaelangelo

You are correct, just tightening up that nut will do the trick. The bolt may not be long enough for a nylock nut to be any use, so theadlock would be the way to go. In my case the the head of the bolts got a little mangled when cutting through the weld so they were also replaced with longer ones.
Pretty sure an incision in in the back of the foot will work. The joint is a lot lower down than you may think, just above the foot plate, so the heel of the foot NOT the ankle. May be tricky if you do need to cut that weld as it`s located at the front of the assembly, but probably still doable. As my plan was to remove the leg `bone` , the sole of the foot seemed a more logical place, or if you want to remove the just the ankle/foot assembly.

This is fantastically useful, thank you! I'm probably going with a foot brace for a bit, just to give that right foot a bit more stiffness while Mira's "asleep in her closet" (so to speak) and for any standing poses in the meantime but I do plan to fix this when I get the time. Like you say, work life is always pulling us away from our girlfriends, even if I thankfully don't have to share garage space with my hobby and my doll

. Hope you notched up some wins with your buggy racing

Really appreciate this fabulous thread and it's a case of who dares wins with doll surgery I think, although even the MF hand job (

) I have planned for Mira feels me with dread, too. What you have achieved so far is just incredible

Cheers,
Mike

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:53 pm

Ok, made a start on the upper skeleton today and things went surprisingly well.

Will make a post when I`ve got a bit further along, but first an update on how the legs are doing after 6 months?....

Foot Attachment:
Still super tight... super happy

Ankle Twist:
As you may recall, untouched and no worse than they were.
Since we were last here I have fabricated a pair of replacement ankle assemblies, no welding and just general DIY tools. Not fitted them, and not my neatest work, but functional prototypes. More on those in another post.

Knee Twist:
Again not much could be done there, and again no worse than they were.

Knees:
I suspect they may have loosened off a touch, hard to say, but if they have, both by the same amount. My engineering brain is telling me for both to go by the same amount is unlikely but not impossible. Either way I still want the knees to be tighter, and last time I had the naked bones on the workbench I could barley move the knee!

Outer Hip- Leg open/close:
Still nice and tight,

Inner hip - leg forward/ back:
Definitely loosened off, one more than the other. Not a bad as they were before surgery, but still

Suspect the washers closest to the eye of the hip again. Will have another go at bonding them to the hip again. Last time I did this at the same time as reconstructing the joint so suspect the grease interfered with the curing of the epoxy. Next time I`ll do the bonding as a separate step.

So, what with the knees and the hips the legs will have to come out again , but at least I didn`t close up the TPE. As her lady parts got several oil cleanings during the last phase I don`t want to risk over oiling her bits, so shall leave this till we`ve gone through the upper skeleton.

Back soon

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:23 pm

Right, lets operate.
First we need to get those hands (MF) out of there. As one of my first attempts at TPE repair her palms arn`t doing so well. No need to make any cuts there.

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First remove the fingers, as they are not the original fingers they came out easily. Then separate the rest of the TPE from the wrappings. Again, like the legs, only the areas with joints seem to be wrapped.

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After removing the wrappings, Undid the two (per arm) lock nuts and removed the rest of the wrist assembly.

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Apologies to Mannequin Fan. The wire I used to construct the fingers was on the wrong side of stiff, and I can be a bit forceful when posing my gals, and Ronnie really is a clumsy oaf. She`s had more booboo`s than all the other girls put together. Also several of the knuckle joints have worked lose and unable to hold position.
Please try not let this put anyone off the MF hands, This is NOT my intention.

Next, folding the hand and wrist up over the forearm, slid 2 fingers under the TPE and along the bone to separate the flesh from the wrapping. No soapy water this time, I anticipate a few days before the bones are ready to be removed so I don`t want any moisture in there yet. Even dry this was a lot easier than I thought it would be.

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Time for another incision

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Interesting. While feeling around for the right spot I could feel a small area of thin TPE with a raised circular something under it, right in the place where the incision needed to be....???? A mounting point for a hanging hook???.... Surely not...... Surely is! there is even evidence of a hole through the TPE that has been filled in at the factory. Perhaps it`s to hold the skeleton in the correct position inside the mold?
A nut welded to the spine appears to be M8, but I don`t have an M8 bolt to hand to test it out.
Of course I immediately went and gave Chianas back a prod. If she has one too then the hole has been filled in a lot better, no thin spot.

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Absolutely no wrappings to be seen. I didn`t check the neck and you can clearly see the head forward/back joint, and the wrappings don`t start till the shoulder/arm junction.
Now lets find those pesky welds.

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The inner of the two joints( shrug up/down). The bolt head is clearly welded in place, at about 2 o`clock. I have to assume the nut is welded to the bolt, and there`s no way I`m getting to it from here. The only option is to cut/grind away the bolt head and punch the bolt through. Messy, not unless there is no other way.
The outer of the two joints ( shrug forward/back). Found the nut to bolt weld pretty easily, but the nut head weld did a bloody good job of hiding from me. At one point I put a spanner to the bolt to check if it actually is welded. Eventually found it, hiding under the TPE at 9 o` clock. By swinging the shrugging action all the way forward and pulling the TPE down, towards the front of the body, pretty sure I can get a tool to both welds.
Still need to investigate the other side, but left it there for today, don`t want to over stress the TPE.

More later

RevJack · Post by **RevJack** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:57 pm

I am laughing my ass off because I know that's a BDSM anal spreader!
Works perfectly! And I may need to get one too.
Love you Shigowa!

Reverend Jack

Michaelangelo · Post by **Michaelangelo** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:06 pm

Having just started on Miranda's (MF) hands, I'm really digging this thread, Shigowa, and, once one gets over the initial shock, it's neat to see how cyborg-like our babes are with their full metal skeletons and everything.

Quick q on the MF hands: did you stick the serrated washers on the outside of the clevis? I can get 1 serrated washer inside and it tightens up really nicely but I was wondering if I get two inside it would be better. But I don't want to force the clevis fork too far apart that I snap it off or something dumb. So if the washers could go on the outside maybe that would be better? But I can't tell if those are actually washers in your photo or maybe some kind of serrated nut/bolt thing. I'm waiting on my new M6 bolts at the mo' so I have time to think about the best approach.

I'll also be posting video of the whole job in a bit, once I have sorted out where to host the video files.

Cheers and great job mate

,

Mike

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:07 pm

RevJack wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:57 pm I am laughing my ass off because I know that's a BDSM anal spreader!
Works perfectly! And I may need to get one too.
Love you Shigowa!

Reverend Jack

Well spotted, but I must stress it was bought specifically for this project. There`s no universe in which I would entertain the mere possibility of contemplating the thought of using it on any living creature.

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:22 pm

Michaelangelo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:06 pm did you stick the serrated washers on the outside of the clevis?

Correct, serrated washers on the outside of the clevis and a pair of normal washers inside the clevis. also used a Nyloc nut, no threadlock. I did the swap about 18 months ago, and had no discernible loosening of the joint.
No torque setting for you, I just went by feel.
Hope all goes well for you.

Michaelangelo · Post by **Michaelangelo** » Thu Nov 24, 2022 4:06 pm

shigowa68 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:22 pm
Michaelangelo wrote: ↑Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:06 pm did you stick the serrated washers on the outside of the clevis?
Correct, serrated washers on the outside of the clevis and a pair of normal washers inside the clevis. also used a Nyloc nut, no threadlock. I did the swap about 18 months ago, and had no discernible loosening of the joint.
No torque setting for you, I just went by feel.
Hope all goes well for you.

Hey thx so much! I have the original washers, in fact everything came off pretty much undamaged. I was amazed what my little diamond file did to the weld on the bolt head -- dead easy. I'm gonna copy your technique I think, sounds like a good idea and I'll also be using the nylok nuts since I ordered a bunch for her palm plate.

Cheers and I'll get my progress vids up at some point too.

Fingers crossed

Mike

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:22 pm

I`m sticking with my 20 minute rule for keeping the TPE stretched and only one session a day, so this could take several days, but a little more done today.
First had a hunt for the welds in the other shoulder, pretty much a mirror image of the first so didn`t take long.
Made a start on separating the TPE from the bandages on the top of the arm. There`s not much room to manoeuvre in there, got a fair bit done on one but I`m not going to be able to reach it all. Fortunately I have planned for this as I didn`t think I would be able to reach all of the elbow. Basically treat the arm as if it were a giant finger, pull and let it fold in over itself.
Finally I took a bit of time to figure out how to position myself and the tools for the grinding, and how to keep the TPE out of the way.

The plan is to remove both arms and the spine in one sitting, so lets make a start on that

The final cut

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Boy, the TPE is a lot thicker than expected, you really gotta dig deep to find the spine, and it`s wrapped...just.

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Can`t separate all the TPE as I can`t reach round to the front of the spine, but as long as the wrapping is separate to the bone, I can get rest of it when the bone is out of the way.
Now lets find those welds.

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YES, Thank you WM, right under my nose

Some definite signs of corrosion though, even though it was bone dry.
Vaginal plug maybe?

Leave it with me

4891d · Post by **4891d** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:43 pm

Damn! Very impressive!

And with the weight reduction, this will all be buried in foam for future dolls! I hope the manufacturers make big improvements on the skeletons soon!

Michaelangelo · Post by **Michaelangelo** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:59 pm

4891d wrote: ↑Fri Nov 25, 2022 4:43 pm Damn! Very impressive!
And with the weight reduction, this will all be buried in foam for future dolls! I hope the manufacturers make big improvements on the skeletons soon!

That's a really good point. I'm really enjoying these skeletal overhaul pics and commentary, and it's fascinating to see what can actually be done with more than a fair bit of expertise ... and confidence! But as you say, with foam that presumably becomes impossible unless you have a foam reconstruction unit standing by.

This back surgery certainly makes the hands I'm doing for Mira look like a walk in the park by comparison!

Basically:

all round!

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Fri Nov 25, 2022 5:08 pm

Damn, never thought about a foam filled babe.
That could be a nightmare!
Note to self: Never buy a reduced weight gal.... Shiyyt!!

shigowa68 · Post by **shigowa68** » Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:54 am

While we`re all waiting for the big extraction, I did promise a word or two on the replacement ankle assembly.

A couple of options here first re-use the original foot clevis, eliminating the problem of the bump stops.

The shin tube dictates an M10 bolt/threaded bar, however the foot clevis is too narrow to take an M10 bolt, with any type of head, also enlarging the hole wont leave enough meat for a secure fixing.
So we must use an M8 cap head bolt in the clevis and a tread reducer to connect to the M10 threaded bar

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A washer and two nuts above the clevis will give you the adjustment and the ability to lock it all down ( ankle twist).
Green theadlock and/or a locking nut at each end of the thread reducer should stop this connection from unwinding.
No pics of this set up as I chose door number two, but I hope that`s all fairly easy to follow.

My main concern with this set up is leverage. The connection, be it a weld or a thread reducer, is going to be the weakest point, Don`t forget this has to take the entire weight of the doll and the further away from the foot the connection is the more leverage is going to be put across it. I suspect this is why the factory put the weld as close to the foot as they could.

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Option two is a long M10 cap head bolt and replace the clevis.
Threaded bar would require a nut inside the clevis, making the clevis a lot wider than the original ( fatter ankles).
Had a hunt around online for pre-made clevises. Tend to come with all the holes the same size ( don`t forget we need 6mm cross holes for he foot) screw on and no room inside for a nut. Plus we need then to twist, so no locking nuts on the outside.

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The simpler ,strip of metal with two bends, all were part of something else, like a break away cable , and had no information on dimensions. Even had a look at castors, and remove the wheel, but again no info on dimensions.
So we`re gonna have to fabricate our own, and getting a nice tight 90 degree bend into a strip of metal without a metal press..... Then It suddenly hit me. ( Your ahead of me already, silly Shigowa) Box section, and cut one face off.

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Went with 40mm x 20mm, M10 cap head fits nicely inside and only 4mm wider than original, and can keep the original height dimensions, so no need to adjust the shin fitting to keep her original height.

Found the M10 bolts up to 150mm long, went with 100mm. Assuming the exact same skeleton to mine is used a range of height dolls, 100mm will be fine for gals shorter than my 164, but any taller WILL need longer bolts.
Bolts over 70mm are more commonly only partially threaded, but full thread are out there. My first batch were advertised as full thread, but arrived as partial thread. when I raised it with the vendor, ...` err, we don`t have those, so we just sent you these`....typical ebay.
The thread can be extended, but it`s bloody exhausting because of the size of bolt, plus the new tread is rougher than the original.
As the cap head is round it wont clamp in vice and you need a lot of torque to cut such a large thread so I recommend a hexagonal die....

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.... and clamp that in the vice. You WILL need an extender tube for the allen key, unless you`re a Terminator.

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Alternatively I recommend I wait for what I actually ordered to arrive.

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Going back to the picture of the original clevis (FF2). You can see only one if the forks has been bent to close the gap for the foot attachment. If i recall correctly this is her right ankle. This will off set the foot slightly to the
inside. Are we really too bothered about a couple of mm? Personally, no.
You may also recall the cross holes are 8mm while the fixing were M6. Not going to bother with any of that. Keep the forks straight, use 6mm holes to match the hardware, and use washers to pack the gap. If I do want to off set the foot, pack the washers accordingly.

Which just leaves the bump stop.
Copying the original design is the best way, simple and takes up almost no space
I don`t own a welder and I have never done any welding. Always wanted to give it a go, they don`t have to be neat, but this is supposed to be a NO WELDING project.

At this point I am wondering do we really need them. If you move your gals foot to the bump stop, that`s quite an angle, more than I can achieve with my own feet. If you stand her up like that she`s either standing on her heels, and gonna fall over, or leaning so far forward she`s gonna fall over. OK, yes they may prevent tearing her heels open when she does fall over, but I do wonder if the bump stops are more for posing than stability.

BUT, bump stops you were promised, bump stops yer gonna get.
Drill 2 holes though the foot plate, in front of the foot attachment and inline with the clevis forks, one for each side. the clevis will then rest up against bolts fitted upwards through these holes.
I`m thinking 4 or 5 mm holes and M4 or M5 button head bolts. Lower profile domed head so not to mess up the sole of her TPE foot. Put as many nuts as you can get on to fill up all the thread.
Clearly, the shorter the bolt and the closer to the attachment point the better for the sake of the TPE.
I`m thinking 15mm bolts maximum. Or longer bolts to be cut down once all fitted up. Some eyeball experimentation needed here to get the right distance and height to get your desired angle. You may want to dust off your high school trigonometry for this one.
What`s that?.....Yes I am saying ` I`m thinking` a lot there. That`s because I didn`t do any of that, so no pics, sorry, but I hope you can follow the arraignment.

There is another way....Door number 2b.
As we`re fabricating a new clevis, make it boot shaped.

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While we`re in the area. I did say, way back when, that the foot plate could do with a little tweek.
When the foot plate is all naked the standing bolts have far too much wiggle to them. I`m concerned that over time this will cause the holes to widen so the standing bolts will no longer hold in place. Nuts welded to the top of the foot plate would be a better way to go, but as we`re not going down that road, rivnuts.
A cross between a pop rivet and a nut, steel ones not aluminium. Requires a setting tool very similar to a pop rivet gun and they are not expensive.