What you see is not what you get.

[Arthur1960]

...
1) Regarding promotional photos, the camera used by the photographer, the adjusted background and lighting, etc., can all affect the photos. And there will be some photo beautification in the later stage.

Why not just take realistic photos of the dolls? You are selling these dolls to actual buyers, not magazines. One of the most rampant issues in this industry is this kind of misleading photography. It seems to be getting worse every year.

I'd suggest a customer-initiated crackdown on "photo beautification."

Certainly the pics you will see on vendor sites of WM dolls are indeed realistic photos and there's nothing stopping you achieving something similar if you want to put in the work much like the photographer does. I've done a bit of promo stuff for a few companies myself and I'm careful to avoid using any software etc that could alter the image to give a misleading representation of the doll. So I will obviously use the best images from a shoot then I might have to edit a bit by cropping or adjusting light balance but otherwise that's it. All the rest is down to the doll herself, makeup, hair, clothing (or not) and of course, most importantly, lighting! I don't even use a particularly high end camera, just my Nikon D3300. I'm fortunate to be a member of this forum so have had the chance to chat with some very skilled photographers so I like to think that some of them has rubbed off on me but I have to say that it does grate a bit when folk complain that photos are enhanced in some way when more often than not they look the way they do because the person that took them has put in the work to represent the doll the best way possible. In the hands of a skilled photographer like Cubiko/mandos then the results will be very good indeed but they are also most certainly realistic!

[lexico]

To be fair every company does this. When was the last time you got a Big Mac that actually looked like the marketing photos?

I don't mind promo pics being "the best they can be" as long as they are genuinely achievable. ie: it's the same doll you or I could buy, just done up by someone with decent makeup skills, some fashion sense and shot with a good camera and photographic eye. If you make a higher quality doll that's just for photos, or photoshop the doll (other than basic colour correction) or even worse create the pics with AI then I'm against it.

Why don't I mind that? Because we're buying the dream, the possibility of a perfect doll. I still want some real, unimproved shots to show the basic doll exactly as it'll be when I open the box, but I'm happy to see what it *could* be with some skill and patience too.

I respectfully disagree.

First, I'm not spending 2K - 3K on a Big Mac.

Beyond that, there's a lot of detail in making a decision about a doll, and the more I learn the more frustrated I'm getting with manufacturers outwardly deceiving buyers with enhanced photos and yes -- impossible photos. Some of the photos I'm seeing are apparently not at all what the doll "could" be.

There's also obfuscation. What manufacturers don't tell you is a problem. Maybe a lot of this is sloppy information management, but it's so rampant in the industry that it seems like an exception when it's NOT the case.

I'm not just trying to be negative here. All this makes it more valuable when a manufacturer shows honest photos, and when a manufacturer gives you the information you need to make a real-world purchase. If I see a manufacturer doing better with all this, I promise to add my voice in support of them as a company!

Regarding the idea of "buying the dream": no, I strongly disagree. I'm not buying a dream. I'm buying a physical object that will one day be actually, really, in my home. If I want a dream, I'll just keep looking at the enhanced product photos for free!

I enjoy healthy discussions, especially with passionate people. I respect your position, so I hope you understand I'm just adding my voice here in hopes of perhaps helping to bring positive changes to this industry. Please feel free to strongly disagree with me.

[Joevega12]

Well real girls on Instagram lie too they don't really look like that in person neither so let's give wm and others a little break atleast the dolls not demanding you make $100,000 to f#ck

[bbc3]

I see I may have failed to convey my point sufficiently. I was mainly making a suggestion to those who are new to purchasing these dolls that when choosing options to not use the ‘as pictured’ option. I liked the nipple color in the website photo so I chose the as pictured option. I know about lighting and how it can change the appearance of your subject. The nipple color in the website is way darker than my doll’s nipples. That isn’t because of the lighting but because the photographer used makeup or the doll they photographed had dark nipples. My advice is if the website photo has dark nipples and you want dark nipples then do not pick the ‘as pictured’ option. Pick dark nipples.

As for the factory picture, compare the head with my photo and the website photo. My doll’s face looks like the website doll but there is a sticking difference with the factory phot. Such as the length of the neck and nipple color. The nipples are slightly lighter than the website photo and my doll doesn’t have hardly any color in the nipples at all.

As an amateur photographer I am well aware of the difference lighting makes on your subject. The photographer’s job is to make the subject look good and please the client. I hope to achieve that in my endeavor to become a better photographer with the aid of my doll. Photo is my first attempt towards that goal.

Several things about the factory photos, the biggest one is that sometimes the neck is not securely attached. The person they ask to take the photo is likely just a random employee, maybe the one who just packs and ships or whatever and they just rest the head on top and dont screw it down all the way because they have to pack it and don't want to take the time. The second is that the factory lights are typically bad for photos, being harsh florescent usually. I haven't had a situation yet where I selected the "as pictured" and it didnt look like what i asked for and i have two dolls from two different manufacturers. The factory photos I've gotten were all quite accurate to what I received.

[chippyminton]

I respectfully disagree.

First, I'm not spending 2K - 3K on a Big Mac.

Beyond that, there's a lot of detail in making a decision about a doll, and the more I learn the more frustrated I'm getting with manufacturers outwardly deceiving buyers with enhanced photos and yes -- impossible photos. Some of the photos I'm seeing are apparently not at all what the doll "could" be.

There's also obfuscation. What manufacturers don't tell you is a problem. Maybe a lot of this is sloppy information management, but it's so rampant in the industry that it seems like an exception when it's NOT the case.

I'm not just trying to be negative here. All this makes it more valuable when a manufacturer shows honest photos, and when a manufacturer gives you the information you need to make a real-world purchase. If I see a manufacturer doing better with all this, I promise to add my voice in support of them as a company!

Regarding the idea of "buying the dream": no, I strongly disagree. I'm not buying a dream. I'm buying a physical object that will one day be actually, really, in my home. If I want a dream, I'll just keep looking at the enhanced product photos for free!

I enjoy healthy discussions, especially with passionate people. I respect your position, so I hope you understand I'm just adding my voice here in hopes of perhaps helping to bring positive changes to this industry. Please feel free to strongly disagree with me.

Very politely and eloquently put. I honestly can't disagree with anything you say - and your disappointment is both tangible and completely understandable. To paraphrase your thread title - what you see is what you should get. Have you taken this matter up with the manufacturer/supplier?

As a 'Plan B' however - have a read through this;

viewtopic.php?t=162447

Hope you get fixed up.

[Unwritten]

The neck length from factory is from being bent forward and a slightly higher angle from where the pic is taken. The shoulders also look to be slightly raised with the "shrugging" feature from the line of the clavicle. My 164j has a very long neck, and I do this to "hide" it a lot.

On the nipples- the color will eventually wear off with cleaning, play, ect. anyway. I usually redo it as soon as I receive all my dolls because their brown is still too pink for my tastes. A reddish brown eye shadow and and small brush will get you the color you're looking for.

[Tewhano]

1) Regarding promotional photos, the camera used by the photographer, the adjusted background and lighting, etc., can all affect the photos. And there will be some photo beautification in the later stage.

First off, thank you for your response. It is refreshing to see vendors taking notice of their customers in a forum.

As I mentioned in a couple of my post, I am well aware that the photographer uses lighting to make the subject more beautiful. If you just used factory photos your client base would dwindle. Factory lights would make a super model look sickly. The fact that my doll doesn’t compare to the professional photo was not and is not my concern. My point is that the photo said light tan skin and the nipples look dark. My doll is lily white and her nipples have the faintest color.

2) When it comes to factory photos, we will take the picture via mobile and factory lighting (cold white light) makes the skin appear even whiter.

I am aware of that, as I mention above. Again, my doll is even whiter that the factory photo.

In addition, if you feel that the makeup on your head does not look like it or any other issues, you can contact your vendor and request them to change the makeup, to make the head similar to the promotional pictures.

I already have the doll and despite that my post may appear to suggest that I am unhappy with the doll, I am not unhappy with her. My post was meant to be a guide to anyone who has never purchase a doll to be aware of the points I made.

[Tewhano]

The neck length from factory is from being bent forward and a slightly higher angle from where the pic is taken. The shoulders also look to be slightly raised with the "shrugging" feature from the line of the clavicle. My 164j has a very long neck, and I do this to "hide" it a lot.

I believe you are correct. I noticed the shoulder position as well. I didn’t connect the two but that is most probably adding to the neck looking shorter.

On the nipples- the color will eventually wear off with cleaning, play, ect. anyway. I usually redo it as soon as I receive all my dolls because their brown is still too pink for my tastes. A reddish brown eye shadow and and small brush will get you the color you're looking for.

Yeah, I will be doing that as well. I ordered a makeup kit…just got to learn how to use it now

[Knightshift]

I agree completely with Arthur 1960. That being said, Arthur... for what it's worth, the doll you received, while not exactly what you thought you were ordering, is in my opinion, simply lovely just the way she is!

[Nackers]

I respectfully disagree.

First, I'm not spending 2K - 3K on a Big Mac.

Beyond that, there's a lot of detail in making a decision about a doll, and the more I learn the more frustrated I'm getting with manufacturers outwardly deceiving buyers with enhanced photos and yes -- impossible photos. Some of the photos I'm seeing are apparently not at all what the doll "could" be.

There's also obfuscation. What manufacturers don't tell you is a problem. Maybe a lot of this is sloppy information management, but it's so rampant in the industry that it seems like an exception when it's NOT the case.

I'm not just trying to be negative here. All this makes it more valuable when a manufacturer shows honest photos, and when a manufacturer gives you the information you need to make a real-world purchase. If I see a manufacturer doing better with all this, I promise to add my voice in support of them as a company!

Regarding the idea of "buying the dream": no, I strongly disagree. I'm not buying a dream. I'm buying a physical object that will one day be actually, really, in my home. If I want a dream, I'll just keep looking at the enhanced product photos for free!

I enjoy healthy discussions, especially with passionate people. I respect your position, so I hope you understand I'm just adding my voice here in hopes of perhaps helping to bring positive changes to this industry. Please feel free to strongly disagree with me.

A couple points of clarity here, I was using a Big Mac as an example since 99% of people have experienced it. The same marketing "polish" is in just about every product sector. If you want to talk something more expensive - how about half a million on a house? Real estate agents take photos that make a 2x3m kitchen look like it's got enough room to play football in it or they stage a house with ridiculously expensive furniture and fittings.

Which is where we get to selling the dream. This is about selling you something with the potential to be exactly what you see. Just like using expensive fittings to make a house look better in order to sell, they dress a doll perfectly, have a makeup expert do her up and use great lighting. As I said I have no problem with that, with one proviso. I should be able to make my doll look the same if I put in a similar amount of effort. In my opinion as long as the doll body is as you see in the promos and they haven't "enhanced" it with non-physical means (like photoshopping to make it look skinnier or curvier, or flat out using AI to fake it) that's ok. Well that and it should be a close match, eg: if the photos are redhead with green eyes getting a black wig and brown eyes is not on.

As I said, I do believe there should be non-glamour shots available to view at the same time though. The problem is they're literally unflattering and in some cases unattractive. Take a shot like this:

155F-silicone-510x327.png (82.72 KiB) Viewed 686 times

The information is provides is invaluable. You get a good idea of exactly what the shape of the body is from "standard" angles. But, the problem is you aren't being sold a gorgeous redhead, or a smoking hot blonde, you're viewing a decapitated body. I don't find it enticing *in isolation* and I find it hard to envisage what it'd be like when paired with a certain head, and even what it'd look like with a blonde wig or as a redhead. Or whether a certain head would be too big or small on that body. That's why I go back to the "selling the dream" part. I want to be able to see a gorgeous redhead that hooks me into wanting the doll. Then I *also* want these type of photos so I can get a more accurate idea of what it looks like "un-enhanced".

I do agree with you and believe they messed up the nipples on your doll (at least) since there doesn't appear to be any difference in colour with the body. As for the colour of the body itself, while it does look different between the photos I can't judge the difference in reality because I'm only seeing pics not in person. It definitely looks lighter in your pic, but without literally having the original doll from the promo next to it I don't know whether the colour is actually different. I do agree that it'd be nice to see the doll shot in a fixed position, with a standard lighting setting that was easy to duplicate. So you knew that was what you'd get.

So TL:DR version: I don't completely disagree with you. I just think glamour shots are important and they're ok as long as they're not over-enhanced, and it's easy to see un-enhanced shots at the same time.

[bbgng8]

A few months ago I bought a few extra heads and I didnt even borther looking at the factory pictures. The day I received them, I immedialty removed ALL the makeup because I just dont like it: eyebrows, lips, cheeks....all!
Even the teeth I cut out on the first day because they look unrealistic and its almost impossible to paint them just to look natural.
I redo the makeup myself and they look 1000x better. I replace the teeth with fake ones you can buy online.

Btw. There are 2 things:
Makeup: The doll on the website has been done by a professional make-up artist. You cant expect the factory workers to do the same for every doll sold.
Photo: A photo will almost always look different then reallife. Dosnt matter if its a DSLR or mobile.

[Tewhano]

2) When it comes to factory photos, we will take the picture via mobile and factory lighting (cold white light) makes the skin appear even whiter.

I am aware of that, as I mention above. Again, my doll is even whiter that the factory photo.

I owe you an apology on the skin tone. I put a white shirt on her for a photo shoot and sure enough there is a slight tan. My bad.

[Tailor]

If a manufacturer or vendor uses a photo and goes to the trouble of labeling it "light tan", then I would assume they intend to use that photo to guide my choice. Yes, lighting matters. People selling products for thousands of dollars can damn well do their homework to set the lighting up so it's representative of real-world conditions and helpful for a customer.

It's more complex than you think to show what a doll's real color looks like
In order for them to be able to show us realistic images, we also need a correctly calibrated screen to see them, (as they look in the real world).

Have to ask, have you calibrated your screen to show correct colors/contrast?
I'm guessing no because not many people have
A special meter such as this one or similar is required.

i1display-300x300-35452353.jpg (13.95 KiB) Viewed 558 times

Our eyes are unreliable in detecting the right colors so calibrating bye eye measurements is not very accurate. All screens display colors differently and some may even be completely wrong, but you may not even realize it because our eyes/brains are very adaptable to accept different/"wrong" color conditions.

[Michaelangelo]

Just my 0.02 $ here would be to wish that more vendors would offer a showroom option. Even if only a small-scale affair, so people could have the option to come in and actually experience these dolls in real life close up before ordering.

I was very lucky to have this opportunity and hence I never had any issues with photos not being true to life. In fact, I just drove the girl that took my fancy home. I understand that this is simply not possible for every make and combination possible from all the manufacturers we now have, but at least seeing, say, a TPE or silicone doll with the same skin tone and maybe hand option or whatever in reality would help consumers then order a doll with the same features but in a different body or head, etc. and not be disappointed when they receive her (or indeed him) about skin tone or other aspects that are hard to accurately judge from an online pic or even video.

Otherwise, given the points already made about lighting and monitor calibration, my “light tan” is gonna be worlds apart from someone else’s, and they’ll be seeing different colours even on two different monitors in their own household…

[Cubiko]

I am sorry if you guys feel that the photos are not representative of how the final doll looks. I try to show the dolls from their best side and build a look, lighting and theme that works, with minimal editing. Part of a photographer’s job is also to find a head, body, hair and eye combination that looks great so the customers don’t need to.

Makeup: The doll on the website has been done by a professional make-up artist. You cant expect the factory workers to do the same for every doll sold.

This is not true. Except a handful of photo series taken in China where WM hired a professional make up artist (you can spot them easily because the dolls have jewels glued onto their faces) most dolls are pretty much factory make up that has been tweaked by the photographer. I can only speak for myself but I am no make up expert, I usually just touch up here and there and slap some lipgloss on.

If you order a non stock WM TPE doll your vendor should send you some preview photos from the factory before shipping, and you can ask for changes to the make up and other things. If you do not get such photos then your vendor is not doing his/her job, the factory offers this service on all orders for this specific reason, to check if everything is as the customer wants.