We can rebuild her. New MF hand plates and wires.

High Country · Post by **High Country** » Sun May 12, 2019 9:52 am

-Ragnar66- wrote:question to IronTech doll owners: The fingers (wires) on my Izabel came off rather quickly, but the wires as such seem intact. Didn´t bend these very much and just cautiously. While squeezing and groping her hands it feels like the wire bases rather came off directly at the handplate design. So did the wires just "pulled out" (possible plug and pull design) or is there sort of weld (spot) that broke?

I'd describe the state of my WM166C's fingers EXACTLY the same, so have the same question

Broven · Post by **Broven** » Sun May 12, 2019 10:33 am

High Country wrote:
-Ragnar66- wrote:question to IronTech doll owners: The fingers (wires) on my Izabel came off rather quickly, but the wires as such seem intact. Didn´t bend these very much and just cautiously. While squeezing and groping her hands it feels like the wire bases rather came off directly at the handplate design. So did the wires just "pulled out" (possible plug and pull design) or is there sort of weld (spot) that broke?
I'd describe the state of my WM166C's fingers EXACTLY the same, so have the same question

I can't answer for the IT dolls, but when my WM 140 was repaired it was some sort of epoxy that was holding the wires in the plate. So, you might be able to get the wire to go back in the hole it left... but even if you could manage that, there would be nothing stopping them from coming right back out again.

-Ragnar66- · Post by **-Ragnar66-** » Sun May 12, 2019 10:53 am

Broven wrote:
High Country wrote:
-Ragnar66- wrote:question to IronTech doll owners: The fingers (wires) on my Izabel came off rather quickly, but the wires as such seem intact. Didn´t bend these very much and just cautiously. While squeezing and groping her hands it feels like the wire bases rather came off directly at the handplate design. So did the wires just "pulled out" (possible plug and pull design) or is there sort of weld (spot) that broke?
I'd describe the state of my WM166C's fingers EXACTLY the same, so have the same question
I can't answer for the IT dolls, but when my WM 140 was repaired it was some sort of epoxy that was holding the wires in the plate. So, you might be able to get the wire to go back in the hole it left... but even if you could manage that, there would be nothing stopping them from coming right back out again.

that´s my thoughts as well. No idea if the IT hands even have epoxy to "fix" the wires, but just like you say they ´ll likely pull out again quickly if not beeing particularly carefull with them. I´ve not tried yet, but I doubt I could re-plug the wires without actually open the hands TPE.

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Sun May 12, 2019 12:31 pm

EasWesNJess wrote: That is awesome!! Let us know when they will be advailable and provide us with a link to your store. I bought a few parts for model cars on Shapeways and quality is always amazing!

I'm also pretty impressed with Shapeways experience so far.
The site is super slick and easy to use. The parts I ordered have already shipped ahead of the estimated time and should be here Wednesday.

What's also nice is that you can even add things to an order if it hasn't shipped yet, so I also added some eyelids and a test eyeball in the premium polished finish. They claim it's a semi glossy finish that's scratch resistant so I'm eager to check that out.
The white nylon material can be easily dyed with Rit Dyemore to any shade desired, or you can also get parts already dyed in a few basic colors for a little extra.

Broven · Post by **Broven** » Sun May 12, 2019 12:34 pm

I'm not completely sure how Shapeways works, but it sounds like this will make it much easier for people to get their hands on your excellent products, MF! I hope it works out.

Mr Franz · Post by **Mr Franz** » Sun May 12, 2019 1:20 pm

-Ragnar66- wrote:question to IronTech doll owners: The fingers (wires) on my Izabel came off rather quickly, but the wires as such seem intact. Didn´t bend these very much and just cautiously. While squeezing and groping her hands it feels like the wire bases rather came off directly at the handplate design. So did the wires just "pulled out" (possible plug and pull design) or is there sort of weld (spot) that broke?

Don't own an IT, but a lot of WM's do the same thing; snap right at the palm plate. One finger and both thumbs on my doll so far and it's the so called improved design... I too am very mindful of the hands and am extremely careful with them. Sounds like IT has adopted the same shitty design!

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Sun May 12, 2019 3:01 pm

I'm wondering if this SLS nylon material would hold up to TPE molding?
Shapeways shows it being heat safe up to 325F or 163C. Not sure what actual temp is on hot TPE.
The powdery matte finish would also work well for getting a good bond with the TPE.

-Ragnar66- · Post by **-Ragnar66-** » Sun May 12, 2019 4:29 pm

Mr Franz wrote:
-Ragnar66- wrote:question to IronTech doll owners: The fingers (wires) on my Izabel came off rather quickly, but the wires as such seem intact. Didn´t bend these very much and just cautiously. While squeezing and groping her hands it feels like the wire bases rather came off directly at the handplate design. So did the wires just "pulled out" (possible plug and pull design) or is there sort of weld (spot) that broke?
Don't own an IT, but a lot of WM's do the same thing; snap right at the palm plate. One finger and both thumbs on my doll so far and it's the so called improved design... I too am very mindful of the hands and am extremely careful with them. Sounds like IT has adopted the same shitty design!

thanks for confirming on the issue. Hopefully someone who actually cut open the hands and had a look at the connections can shed some light on this! Panther68

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Thu May 16, 2019 7:59 pm

Alright, got the samples from Shapeways yesterday!

All in all, I'm pleased with how the palm plate parts came out, so I think this may be a go.
I also sent a set of eyelids and an EME eyeball for a test. The eyelids came out very rough and for some reason had some pretty serious banding issues.
You'd think a $250K EOS printer would do a little better than this...

: IMG_4752.JPG (177.36 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

Anyway, here's s little mini review of the good stuff...

Came in a nice little Shapeways box and each order individually bagged...

: IMG_4746.JPG (317.8 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

: IMG_4747.JPG (316.87 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

The palm plate and finger parts came out great. These were just the basic finish, no post processing or polishing.
The nylon SLS material has a grainy appearance and feel, but the detail is still surprisingly nice...

: IMG_4748.JPG (240.37 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

One issue I did have was that the wire holes in the 2 longer phalanx parts were still full of powder, so I had to use a small drill bit with my fingers to dig it out.

: IMG_4749.JPG (239.76 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

The flush cutters that came with my 3d printer worked perfectly for cutting the sprues off flush with the part surface.
I was worried about tolerances since this is a different printing system, but the parts fit great...

: IMG_4755.JPG (272.77 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

For gluing parts to the wire, the Loctite adhesive seemed to work OK with the nylon, however it seems to grab and set a little faster with ABS. Probably because the glue solvent doesn't really react with nylon.
After a full 24 hour cure though it seems to be strong enough.

: IMG_4756.JPG (237.52 KiB) Viewed 1324 times

algaeholics · Post by **algaeholics** » Fri May 17, 2019 3:57 am

Great job MF, I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts. I certainly do!

Looking forward to more updates.

-Ragnar66- · Post by **-Ragnar66-** » Fri May 17, 2019 8:05 am

great news and job, MF!

Now looking forward to read on testing results!

boldav50 · Post by **boldav50** » Fri May 17, 2019 9:38 am

Is it expensive to have parts made by Shapeways? I noticed that they have an instant quote page where you can upload your design for a price. I haven't personally designed or 3d printed anything before, but your posts have made me interested in trying it out some time.

adelea · Post by **adelea** » Fri May 17, 2019 9:40 am

MannequinFan wrote:You'd think a $250K EOS printer would do a little better than this...

The cynic in me says that this may be intentional, else they couldn't upsell their finishing services!

Are they much rougher than your own unfinished eyelids? Do they sand smooth easily enough?

MannequinFan · Post by **MannequinFan** » Fri May 17, 2019 12:33 pm

algaeholics wrote:Great job MF, I'm sure we all appreciate your efforts. I certainly do!

Looking forward to more updates.

Thanks Algaeholics!

-Ragnar66- wrote:great news and job, MF! Now looking forward to read on testing results!

Thanks! I think Panther has determined that these are holding up quite well so far.
Of course time will tell in the long run exactly how long they will hold up before needing replacement.
The nice thing with this is that individual finger parts could also be obtained if need be. Shapeways ships from the Netherlands in Europe so hopefully better for folks across the pond.

boldav50 wrote:Is it expensive to have parts made by Shapeways? I noticed that they have an instant quote page where you can upload your design for a price. I haven't personally designed or 3d printed anything before, but your posts have made me interested in trying it out some time.

Boldav it doesn't cost anything to make an account and upload parts so give it a try!
Also, the price you see is the actual price you pay, not just an estimate. You may want to take it to a shopping cart to get the total with shipping. There is an extra charge if you want it faster which you can select in the cart. Parts are made to order so there is a fairly long lead time (+/- 20 days) unless you pay extra.

adelea wrote:The cynic in me says that this may be intentional, else they couldn't upsell their finishing services!

Are they much rougher than your own unfinished eyelids? Do they sand smooth easily enough?

Adelea I don't think it's intentional, the roughness is just the property of the material and process.
The banding however is indicative of some kind of a problem. Either the part is moving slightly during printing or something is slightly out of whack with the printer. Could be because the part is so thin, not sure. The other parts were perfect and didn't show any of this banding.

They have another printing process called "Fine Detail Plastic" which I think will be more suited to the eyelids and maybe even an entire EME kit.

It's an acrylic resin type material used mainly for doing miniatures, and the price is fairly inexpensive for small items. The layer resolution is 29 microns (.029mm) or 16 microns for the extra smooth. That's about 5x the resolution of my printer, or almost 10x with the extra smooth.

I have a sample eyeball coming in the 29 micron version.