What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
- Kaori Kusanagi
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
So what you can do, and you can do this yourself, is to vacuform some thick ABS or similar, into the shape you want.
You can make a mold for this with anything that can withstand the near-melting point of the plastic you'll use. Wood (even balsa), some of the sculptable foams, some clays, plaster, or even the existing fiberglass unit you already have. It doesnt' have to be a very good mold, meaning, not precisely shaped, depending on how you are hollowing out the space it's going into. You can even make the mold using hte bagged-sprayfoam method discussed in my previous post, then use that to make a hard plastic core with vacuforming.
Buying a vacuform machine is a little expensive for something with a large bed, but you can make your own with an old airhockey table, or drill your own bed surface out of whatever materials you have that are suitable (lots of webpages on making your own machines). A really good vacuum source is best made out of a compressor running in reverse--suck the air out of the tank (big as you can get), rather than a vacuum pump or actual vacuum (like a shop vac), especially if you can seal the edges of the bed and molding material really well.
Melting the plastic sheet, especially if it's very thick, is tougher to do evenly on larger areas, but an old dryer heating coil can be used for this, among other possible heating elements. (stove or oven elements, toaster ovens, space heaters, etc).
Underdrafts (of sucking the plastic under the mold making it impossible to get the mold out) are preventable with bits of clay to block such spaces.
If you can't use thicker plastic you can make one copy on the mold, trim the excess off but leave the piece on the mold, then just keep molding over it a layer at a time, until it's as thick as you need it to be. If necessary you can glue them together with the appropriate solvent for the plastic used, for more stiffness.
Or you can use the thinner plastic, and fill it with sprayfoam.
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Thanks for the information. I like the idea of using the spray foam. But have some concerns, because like you said the stuff that doesn't get hard, is really toxic. The biggest issue is for the whatever is in there hold its shape, withstand weight/pressure, also I really want a more realistic feel to their bodies. It kind of a dysphoric feeling when cuddling with my guys and it is just soft with no resistance. If that makes sense.Kaori Kusanagi wrote:If you really really want to use a core like is shown in that other thread, you don't need to make it out of fiberglass. The only reason they did that was so it would survive the very hot molding process.
So what you can do, and you can do this yourself, is to vacuform some thick ABS or similar, into the shape you want.
You can make a mold for this with anything that can withstand the near-melting point of the plastic you'll use. Wood (even balsa), some of the sculptable foams, some clays, plaster, or even the existing fiberglass unit you already have. It doesnt' have to be a very good mold, meaning, not precisely shaped, depending on how you are hollowing out the space it's going into. You can even make the mold using hte bagged-sprayfoam method discussed in my previous post, then use that to make a hard plastic core with vacuforming.
Buying a vacuform machine is a little expensive for something with a large bed, but you can make your own with an old airhockey table, or drill your own bed surface out of whatever materials you have that are suitable (lots of webpages on making your own machines). A really good vacuum source is best made out of a compressor running in reverse--suck the air out of the tank (big as you can get), rather than a vacuum pump or actual vacuum (like a shop vac), especially if you can seal the edges of the bed and molding material really well.
Melting the plastic sheet, especially if it's very thick, is tougher to do evenly on larger areas, but an old dryer heating coil can be used for this, among other possible heating elements. (stove or oven elements, toaster ovens, space heaters, etc).
Underdrafts (of sucking the plastic under the mold making it impossible to get the mold out) are preventable with bits of clay to block such spaces.
If you can't use thicker plastic you can make one copy on the mold, trim the excess off but leave the piece on the mold, then just keep molding over it a layer at a time, until it's as thick as you need it to be. If necessary you can glue them together with the appropriate solvent for the plastic used, for more stiffness.
Or you can use the thinner plastic, and fill it with sprayfoam.
So I ordered a life size plastic skeleton and a fiberglass resin/fabric kit. I want the feel of the ribcage, hence the skeleton. I think I will make the inserts in two parts. The top part will be over the top and sides of the skeleton's ribcage and the back I will use the back of fiberglass insert so I have that part that will attach to the spine of the doll. The other positive thing about making the insert in two parts is it allows to make ones of different sizes, by how far I lay the fiberglass down the sides. I have three different size dolls I am making inserts for, and possibly four...
As for the abdomen, I may very well go with the spray foam idea. I like that better then just sticking a plastic bottle in there which was my latest idea. For the thigh, calves and butt, that may take a bit more thinking on. I will experiment with the foam, but those are high stress areas and I am worried the foam may not be strong enough to hold it's shape. I will have to look into it and see. Of course if I mixed fiberglass shavings into the foam that may strengthen it enough.. I don't know.
The big issue and part of the reason why I want to use hollow inserts is to maximize the weight reduction. Honestly I am really struggling moving my guys around even with the equipment I have, and wearing a back brace. So whatever I can do that will functionally take as much weight off, and is safe for the dolls, that is what I am going to go with.
I do have a couple of ideas in mind for making a doll lift, that is portable, easy to disassemble and easy to move around on smaller spaces. It was one of those 3am ideas I woke up with. And actually except for the pully or electric wenching system, I have everything I need to build it. When that happens I will post it on my other thread.
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- Kaori Kusanagi
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
It's not that it's toxic (though all of this stuff is to one degree or another), it's that it is a whole other process that requires mixing parts together, like 2-part epoxys and stuff, and it's way messier, etc. It's going to need more prep to setup, and make more mess and probably more waste. It's the same way they make stuff like sofa cushions and dense automotive padding, the like.muesky6969 wrote: Thanks for the information. I like the idea of using the spray foam. But have some concerns, because like you said the stuff that doesn't get hard, is really toxic.
Alternately, you could take actual old sofa cushions of the density and squishiness you prefer, and cut out the shapes you need with a "hot wire foam cutter" (or a thick-bladed (to hold as much heat as possible) butcher knife heated sufficiently to very rapidly cut thru it; I've never found a knife sharp enough to do it without heat and get the shapes and curves desired). I have done this for the cores of some of my snuggle-dolls over the decades, and sometimes the limbs (with wire "bones" in them).
Some cushions are very squishy, and some are quite hard, and evertyhing in between, so you can get whatever you want (and can make layers, as well, to get a particular feel).
When using the cushion material, if you have to make mulitple separate pieces to get the size/shape you're after, you can glue it together with anything flexible that will adhere to the urethane foam without dissolving it; I usually use RTV Silicone, almost always the GE Silicone I caulking tubes like from Lowes/etc. The silicone is much denser than the foam, so if you have to use more than a very thin layer, it's going to make a hard "line" in the core, though you probably cant' feel this thru the TPE unless the TPE is very thin there. (on my cloth dolls I could sometimes feel it thru the surface layers, but not usually).
Yes, it does.The biggest issue is for the whatever is in there hold its shape, withstand weight/pressure, also I really want a more realistic feel to their bodies. It kind of a dysphoric feeling when cuddling with my guys and it is just soft with no resistance. If that makes sense.
Though personally, I've found I prefer an overall more squishy feeling, though different densities of squishiness are better than the same throughout. I don't really like the "bone" feeling inside, it is kind of creepy, which is one reason I went with heavy-gauge wire with most of my cloth dolls, vs pipes or wood or whatever. The catch is that for anything "realistic" looking, poseable in an easy & natural way, the wire doesn't easily lend itself to that. (and it eventually breaks at any bending points).
If you use sprayfoam for areas that need to bend/squish, it will not hold it's shape permanently--it is compressible to a degree while rebounding slowly, but enough compression and it's permanent. Anything mixed in won't help with that, unfortunately.As for the abdomen, I may very well go with the spray foam idea. I like that better then just sticking a plastic bottle in there which was my latest idea. For the thigh, calves and butt, that may take a bit more thinking on. I will experiment with the foam, but those are high stress areas and I am worried the foam may not be strong enough to hold it's shape. I will have to look into it and see. Of course if I mixed fiberglass shavings into the foam that may strengthen it enough.. I don't know.
You'd need to use something like the urethane foams, which are the two-part messy-mixing/etc stuff if you do it yourself, or the sofa-cushions if you want the readymade stuff. You can get/make different density mixes if you mix it yourself, or you can find different hardnesses (densities) of sofa cushions, and pick the one(s) that will give you the feel you're after.
Foam is full of air (which is why it's a foam), and is often more air than material, so it will help with that, if it suits the density/squishiness you're after.The big issue and part of the reason why I want to use hollow inserts is to maximize the weight reduction.
You can make foams of anything, if you have a way to get air (or a gas) into it as it is mixed, and keep it in there until it cures/hardens/etc. Even fiberglass, etc. Some of the foams can be stiffer than the solid material, for the same mass/weight.
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Anyway, I am buying a #142 with a bit more ethnicity since she is going to be an Egyptian fairy. Still planning on giving her the heavy kohl eyeliner, elf ears and wings. I am attaching a picture of the head I am going to buy.
BTW I found a vendor I really like and they have really good prices, have some good sales right now with 15% off everything and of course they can get E'agle in the custom dark red color I want.. Oh and they give additional discounts for TDF members. The vendor is called Rosemary Dolls https://www.rosemarydoll.com/ . I will write up a review when E'agle arrives. So far Rose has been really nice and they have a huge selection of dolls, including male dolls. Super excited about getting another doll, even though I am a bit nervous on his weight, 145lbs, so he is definitely going to have to get his weight reduced or I am not going to be able to move him around at all.
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Fiberglass is pretty robust as well for it's weight
When facing a creative dry spell, just be patient, the ideas will keep coming, probably in the middle of the night, so keep a writing pad & pencil next to your bed
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Cleo is just part of the family!! I am looking forward in making her into an Egyptian fairy. She is going to be beautiful...seagull wrote:Any face/body/person younger than 50 is probably too young for this old dude
Fiberglass is pretty robust as well for it's weight
When facing a creative dry spell, just be patient, the ideas will keep coming, probably in the middle of the night, so keep a writing pad & pencil next to your bed
I understanding the age issue... Hence why Xiel was aged up..
Fortunately the really good ideas tend to stick in my head.. Once the it finally warms up, I am going to start making the chest inserts. Another project I am so excited about getting start on.. It will definitely make life with my dolls easier, and if I can show others how to lessen their dolls weight..
You know I was thinking about the inserts, the fiberglass insert and cotton batting, I can change my dolls physical body shape. What I am thinking is that I would like to make Agares arms and legs a little more muscular. Agares legs and arms don't really match his torso with muscular chest. I don't plan on making him super muscular but just a bit more..
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Actually more like cotton muscle implants. I bought cotton batting, with polyfiber to stuff in the pockets I plan to sew in muscle shapes.seagull wrote:TPE paste muscle implants?
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- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
I started the weight reduction process on Cleo. Need to work on getting this process down because E'agle weight is 145lbs, and I am going to have to get his weight down quite a bit. Thighs, calves, butt, arms and torso is going to get carved out and packed with lighter material, because I need to get his weight down by at least 35lbs.
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
That is a no doubter!!! I think I can get about 35lbs off so he will be a little less then Xiel does now. But even if I couldn't get his weight down, it wouldn't matter, I would have ordered him anyway.seagull wrote:Wow! 145lbs is a solid lump
So I found out how to make hooves for E'agle. Just need to wait till he gets here so I know exactly how big his feet are. On Etsy I found these cloven hooves that you attach to the ball of a pair of high heels, that you take the heel off. With those it will make E'agle about 6' tall. I am just so happy how things are just falling into place. Now I am going to need another office chair for E'agle to sit in...
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- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
I know, I know... WTF, right? Here is the thing with some of repairs and modifications that E'agle is getting, I am not sure I can get his skin color back to even, so why not play up on that by texturing the skin so it looks intentional. As I mentioned to MXV, at first I thought about getting a metal brand with scale relief carved into it. Heat brand and press the scale pattern into the skin. Which would be easy to do but getting a brand made, not so much.
Then this morning I woke up at 4 am and had a bit of euphony. I could just use soften the TPE up enough, with the heat gun and then use a plastic or rubber stamp with a scale pattern and press in the scale pattern. I am going to check Hobby Lobby and Michaels today and see if they have something like that. If not I will make it, since I have a mold making kit and plastic resin to make the stamps.
You could use any stamp design. This could also be a more permanent type of tattoo.
Anyway, I don't know if anyone is really interested in this idea. It is going to have to be a thing for E'agle because it is one way I can hide the repairs that looks in line with what I am going for in his transformation.
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- DG
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
Former Dolls:
Samantha - SY 165cm Elf
Charles - IronTech male
Clint - IronTech male
Marcellus - Male Real Doll - Body A
Orion - Male Real Doll - Body A
Lance - WM Male #207 head
Larry - WM Male #207 head
Colt - Gabriel M1 Sinthetics Male
Dolls in Storage:
Laurence (aka Doc, Dorian, Beau) - Homemade fabric male doll
Trevor - Homemade Fabric male doll
Tristan - Homemade Fabric/Silicone hybrid male doll
Landon - WM Male #207 Head
Current Dolls
Lawrence - Homemade Fabric/Silicone hybrid male doll
- muesky6969
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Re: What advice do you all have on re-sculpting a face
I just keep in mind, that any screw ups can always be fixed. That is the great thing about working with TPE, it is very forgiving..DG wrote:I think your innovations and ideas are pretty cool. I wish I was as brave as you, hehe.
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