Invest in lighting or camera, which first?

Jimpink · Post by **Jimpink** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:32 am

Hello!

So I've only really got immediate funds for either decent lighting or a decent camera but not both at once, which should I go for?

Currently using my camera phone on an old Samsung S6 which has pretty good specs for what it is, 16MP.

I'm thinking to start with lighting as my small flat doesn't get great natural light from outside and I've found it tricky getting the shoots right because it can be rather dark. Godox SL-60 seems like a good place to start, picked that up from another post on here, thank you!

Check Amy's eye candy link below and see what you think, the first shoot was really poor on lighting and then I attempted to edit with GIMP 2.10, followed by the second shoot where I improved the initial lighting and also got better at the edits, I hope!

Willendorph · Post by **Willendorph** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:14 am

I would go with lighting first. It makes a lot of difference. A few years ago, I bought a kit for about £100 with two large soft boxes and a backdrop setup. I still use it for all my indoor shoots, and I think it makes more difference to getting good quality shots than the camera I use with it. I think you need light to get good photos and regardless of how much you spend on a camera you won't get the best out of it without decent lighting.

JJb_ing · Post by **JJb_ing** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:14 am

jimpink wrote:Hello!

So I've only really got immediate funds for either decent lighting or a decent camera but not both at once, which should I go for?

Currently using my camera phone on an old Samsung S6 which has pretty good specs for what it is, 16MP.

I'm thinking to start with lighting as my small flat doesn't get great natural light from outside and I've found it tricky getting the shoots right because it can be rather dark. Godox SL-60 seems like a good place to start, picked that up from another post on here, thank you!

Check Amy's eye candy link below and see what you think, the first shoot was really poor on lighting and then I attempted to edit with GIMP 2.10, followed by the second shoot where I improved the initial lighting and also got better at the edits, I hope!

Invest in lighting. No need too spend a lot for a "decent" camera. Spend more on lights and you can get a used dslr for so cheap these days. A Nikon d80 or canon 40d with lenses goes for $150 on Craigslist. But back to lighting. You can go far with learning to light with one light set up but you need to invest a bit on ancillary equipment. Like reflectors, some black wrap. Additional light stands, grip tape, some foam boards and gels for creative color lighting and other expendable items. All these items can be very cheap so you don't need to spend alot on them.

So yeah if you wanna go jump into the deep end, investing in lighting is a better way to actually learn the "how" of photography/film/video.

I've have had different high end pro cameras before but replaced them all with just the Panasonic G-9 a year ago but I haven't used it at all with shooting my dolls since I find just using my Samsung S9 so much more convenient (also I am super lazy). With a phone camera and decent lighting you can get rather good results. Granted a stand alone camera would be better but who has the time. Anyway that's my opinion, others might disargee but there it is. Go with lights and then camera. Good luck.

ricric · Post by **ricric** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 4:17 am

invest in light first, absolutely

exec summary
1. If you go for natural ligth (read sun) you may just buy some fabric to control / hide / reveal sun light coming from window + camera
2. If you want continuous light you need a starter set and camera
3. If you want more control (but more complex) you can go strobes & camera

Less than 1000€ for natural light.
I suppose a budget of 1000-1500€ for continuous lights or strobes.

Details
order (first is most important)
1. light source (unless you want to use natural/ambiant light)
2. light modifiers (photo umbrella, softoxes), in fact modifiers are equally important with light source
you can have starter kits with continuous lights & umbrella & stands for less than 200€ on Amazon or eBay ; search for "kit studio light"
3. learn how to use your gear (spend tens of hours on YT and practice)
4. camera, a first decent camera at 800€ is enough to begin with and will give you nice pictures if you know how to use your light
if you have crap light (aka you don't know how to use your light) you will have crap pictures, even with a 10k€ camera

you have 3 types of light source :
* sun : 0€, you depend if it is present, not easy but can give you amazing shots, it is free "continuous light"
* artificial continuous light : you can get a starter set for not much money, technically it works like the sun with subtilities due to it is near the subject
* strobes / flashes : you can easily spend a lot on money, but you can start with strobes less than 50-100€ each (yongnuo or godot flash), but need to spend ~300€ for 2 flashes + stands + trigger ; I find strobes are more complex to use than continuous light (but I prefer strobes)
* must add light modifiers : start with photo umbrella then you can later use boxes, you need modifiers

My personal experience a couple of years ago :
I bought a canon 650d (maybe 600-800€)
And paid for a few hours training in order to have basics.
I spent countless of hours on YT.
I bought 2 yongnuo strobes with cord trigger, I soon bought remote triggers. I also bought 2 stands with 2 umbrellas.
I practiced.
I prefer strobes over natural / continuous light but strobes require more investisment (money, time, training).

I later bought a better camera but only after I understood the limits of my 650d.
I also soon invested in other lenses , you may even want to invest in lenses before you change you camera because the lens is a dramatic part of you picture quality. But make your you lens is compatible with your first camera and will be with your potentially next one.

edit:

JJb_ing wrote: A Nikon d80 or canon 40d with lenses goes for $150 on Craigslist. But back to lighting. You can go far with learning to light with one light set up but you need to invest a bit on ancillary equipment. Like reflectors, some black wrap. Additional light stands, grip tape, some foam boards and gels for creative color lighting and other expendable items. All these items can be very cheap so you don't need to spend alot on them.

You are right JJb_ing, used gear is a good way to start.

Ztar073 · Post by **Ztar073** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 12:25 pm

Well if you get the camera first you can do alot more then doll photography inside the house . May not be a popular opinion here but there is more to use your camera for then just dolls. There's a whole world out there.

Jimpink · Post by **Jimpink** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 1:41 pm

Confirmation on lighting first is what I needed here and thank you for your swift replies on the subject. I'll search for some simple continuous lighting kits and practice bouncing the light places soon. If all goes well I can add more complicated equipment like flash kits and such once I've remembered the basics, I did use a flash kit when I studied fine art years ago. I mainly did photography on that course and learnt how to process and print colour film but colour blindness hindered any mastering of the techniques especially when it came to colour hues!

Digital photography never appealed to me as I enjoyed the physical aspect of film, darkrooms and the entire process. In theory it should be more convenient and the same rules apply so with more practice hopefully the better I'll get. I'm also hoping to move soon and will be looking for a larger apartment in order to easily have space for more shoots.

Ztar073 I agree a camera can open up more possibilities but for now I'm more interested in portrait photography which is something I've only really tried once and as I've said above all my prints came out with a lovely orange glare that I didn't spot!

Anyone familiar with GIMP 2.10? I've used it to edit my so far badly lit pictures and it seems to be working though I realise this is only a secondary improvement to the actual shoot itself where lighting is key.

ricric · Post by **ricric** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 6:43 pm

when I wrote light first I did not really mean to skip a camera, but rather don't put all your money in your camera.
which JJb_ing summarized very well

I like blondes · Post by **I like blondes** » Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:18 pm

Lighting. This was taken on my cell phone using 2 cheap LED selfie ring lights from Amazon in my small bedroom. Did some post production with FaceApp & YouCam Makeup. The result speaks for itself.

Jimpink · Post by **Jimpink** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:05 am

I like blondes wrote:Lighting. This was taken on my cell phone using 2 cheap LED selfie ring lights from Amazon in my small bedroom. Did some post production with FaceApp & YouCam Makeup. The result speaks for itself.

I've just purchased some cheap soft box lights from eBay and will experiment with these to start with and hope to level up to your standard!

ricric wrote:when I wrote light first I did not really mean to skip a camera, but rather don't put all your money in your camera.
which JJb_ing summarized very well

Lighting first, camera second is the plan I reckon. Test my skills or lack of with the lights bought above then if enthusiasm and improvement is there, I'll look for a camera.

Tighes · Post by **Tighes** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:49 am

I’m another for lighting first. It doesn’t have to be overly expensive. Godox AD200’s are only a couple of hundred dollars and a light stand and softbox second hand would be less than $100. This will make all the difference than shooting natural light mainly because you control what light you want where. A second hand DSLR are cheap but still give good results. I’d pick a cheap DSLR and good lighting any day over an expensive camera and natural light.

This was shot with a Godox AD200 with a single softbox and an older Canon 5D Mk2 to give you an idea.

Post by **Studio** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:01 am

I agree with the importance of lights and that you can get serviceable lighting kits for around 100 USD. Even for a very inexperienced photographer it can make a big difference whereas the camera technology itself adds almost nothing compared to composition, posing, hair, joint/finger alignment, eye position, straps not twisted, makeup etc.

-Ragnar66- · Post by **-Ragnar66-** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 5:33 am

Yes, lighting (softbox) and a tripod for both my cheapish cams helped me most on learnig photo shooting indoors. Doesn´t make me a "better" photographer though. ESDDI has some rather inexpenisve but good for the purpose lighting stuff. My tripod is a Fotopro one and comes with adapters for all sort of cams, mobiles incl. Spent less than 100$ for both these things.

Blisst · Post by **Blisst** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:02 am

I'm not really a shutterbug, but I know quite a bit about photography (mostly 70mm) from working at a photo lab when I was young. Often times customers were enthusiastic with their descriptions of how they acquired the shots they were happy with and I picked up a lot of info.

Only having seen the pics posted in Amy's eye candy thread, I believe that lighting will give you more bang for your buck than a new camera.

But I'm going to toss out an idea that I didn't see mentioned by the others already in this thread.

I received a clip on lens kit for cell phone photography as a gift, and was pleasantly surprised how well those little clip on things worked. The macro lens became a staple of mine in the machine shop for taking shots of the surface finish of machined parts. The telephoto came in handy a few times around town at sunset, and the fisheye helped make a cute little skateboarding video of the niece for her to post on TikTok.

The kit I received hasn't broken yet and I've kind of abused it, especially in the machine shop. I'd assume the others out there would be pretty robust as well.

I'd recommend you look for a kit that has the zoom, macro, and UV filters you want, then consder any telephoto, fisheye, etc as bonus.

Search your favorite internet retailer for "cell phone clip on lens kit." Prices vary but for about $30 you can get a kit with 10 or more lenses to choose from.

The other thing I'd recommend is to dive into whatever advanced features there are on your camera app. I'm not sure about the S6, but my S8 has a pro mode where you can change aperture, F-stop and other settings. Figure out what's available to you and practice using them.

Finally, software. From simple little built in things in your phone to do the BW or sepia tones, to things that add bunny ears and whiskers. There is also free fully fledged photo manipulation software with features that rival Adobe PhotoShop. My personal recommendation is GIMP https://www.gimp.org/.

Jimpink · Post by **Jimpink** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:21 pm

My incoming lighting was considerably cheaper than some of your recent suggestions so we shall see how long it lasts before a) collapsing and disintegrating or b) blowing up taking everything, doll, me and my flat with it. I'm sure if I'm careful I can get some shots off before any of this happens...

I did look at some Godox stuff Tighes1 and that'll be my go to once the first stuff lives it's life.

As for a clip on lens kit, I'm off to look for one right now. That could be a game changer in terms of affordability and multi function usability. Good tip Blisst! And I'm already using/getting used to GIMP 2.10, any advice appreciated as it's loaded with adjustments and can be somewhat overwhelming.

Muninn · Post by **Muninn** » Wed Jan 20, 2021 2:46 pm

I got this set off Amazon for about £50. So two lights with stands, backdrop frame and three backdrops (green, black, white):

: CRW_2347.jpg (2.86 MiB) Viewed 1242 times

Chinese make, but to be honest they're not bad quality, and it all folds up into a couple of carry bags. They've made quite a difference to photo quality, and I'm still working to death my old Canon 300D!